(12-30-2024, 02:31 PM)3wt Wrote: I think that the moves Tee has made and the priorities he has articulated might make it doable, despite the legitimate barriers of putting so much money on three contracts.

Certainly a long shot, but might be doable.   One of the keys will be the Bengals matching his concessions with theirs.   It's a different team with him on the field.

I also think the Bengals need to look at Philadelphia's operating model.  They seem to have found a way to transition from one playoff roster to a new one without financially imploding.   Requires planning and thinking out of the box, and putting more resources into your scouting team.

We have been blessed with a dynamic core.   They need to earn their keep by not letting historical failures to repeat themselves.

Hope you're listening Elizabeth!

The Burrow window is deceptively small

(12-30-2024, 04:40 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 5 seasons?

Brandon LaFell the very next year had 862 yards as our #2 WR (35th most among WRs)


He didn't repeat it in 2017, but in 2018 Tyler Boyd broke out big. Our #1s health just started failing (which is not the same conversation we're having, if Chase goes down for a year and Tee is shoved into the #1 role, we still had a legitimate #1 and #2 on our roster, injuries just happened).


He had >700 yards for us on a playoff team in 2011, he was 39th among all WRs in receiving yards that year. I consider that a breakout and a quality year for a #2 WR. Even more so considering we weren't throwing the ball nearly 40 times a game like we are now.

(12-30-2024, 02:31 PM)3wt Wrote: I think that the moves Tee has made and the priorities he has articulated might make it doable, despite the legitimate barriers of putting so much money on three contracts.

Certainly a long shot, but might be doable.   One of the keys will be the Bengals matching his concessions with theirs.   It's a different team with him on the field.

I also think the Bengals need to look at Philadelphia's operating model.  They seem to have found a way to transition from one playoff roster to a new one without financially imploding.   Requires planning and thinking out of the box, and putting more resources into your scouting team.

We have been blessed with a dynamic core.   They need to earn their keep by not letting historical failures to repeat themselves.

Hope you're listening Elizabeth!

The Burrow window is deceptively small

(12-30-2024, 04:59 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: AJ missed 6 games that season though. LaFell actually finished with the most targets on the team to get those yards.

Idk, personally I wouldn’t consider guys like LaFell or Simpson particularly good WR2’s.

(12-30-2024, 05:16 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: And Boyd filled in as the #2 when AJ got hurt, he had over 600 yards as the #3 that had to step up for some games.

I think you don't consider those solid WR2 seasons because you/we have been spoiled. We're 16 games in for almost all teams so it's a good time to compare now to times pre-17 games.

The #2 WRs on winning AFC teams in 2024
Bills: Keon Coleman, 525 yards
Ravens: Rashon Bateman, 680 yards
Chiefs: DeAndre Hopkins, 437 yards
Chargers: Josh Palmer, 584 yards
Broncos: Marvin Mims, 452 yards
Steelers: Calvin Austin III, 548 yards
Texans: Tank Dell, 667 yards

Just proving my point that for all of the many MANY faults of the Bengals FO, we have been very good at getting WRs. Guy does better than every #2 WR on a winning AFC team and the first instinct is "sure, but he's not THAT good of a #2" (really just meaning he's not a 900-1000 yard WR and probably a bad team's #1).

(12-30-2024, 05:24 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Most of those teams actually have a balanced offense though. We’re never getting that under Zac Taylor. Having at least 2 very good WR’s is imperative as long as he’s here and calling the plays.

(12-30-2024, 05:24 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Most of those teams actually have a balanced offense though. We’re never getting that under Zac Taylor. Having at least 2 very good WR’s is imperative as long as he’s here and calling the plays.

(12-30-2024, 11:43 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: This will be  my last post regarding this discussion ...I have tried to be very polite  but to suggest the team use more than one third of its payroll  on three players is just downright silly

(12-30-2024, 05:40 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep. We're 2nd in the league in passing attempts per game.

In general, most of the playoff teams have lower pass attempts per game. But, there are some outliers, like the Chiefs pass a lot.

2024 NFL Attempts / Game Leaders & Stats - Team Passing Stats | FOX Sports

(12-31-2024, 01:14 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: When your 4th in points allowed, of course u will be throwing alot especially with top tier QB. I take signing a top tier DE or LB over Higgins all day.

(12-31-2024, 01:25 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So it's one or the other? Can't have both?

What top tier LB or DE that's a free agent will you sign?

Just like people always say to sign a top Tackle. Those guys are rarely free agents.

(12-31-2024, 01:14 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: When your 4th in points allowed, of course u will be throwing alot especially with top tier QB. I take signing a top tier DE or LB over Higgins all day.

(12-30-2024, 05:16 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: And Boyd filled in as the #2 when AJ got hurt, he had over 600 yards as the #3 that had to step up for some games.

I think you don't consider those solid WR2 seasons because you/we have been spoiled. We're 16 games in for almost all teams so it's a good time to compare now to times pre-17 games.

The #2 WRs on winning AFC teams in 2024
Bills: Keon Coleman, 525 yards
Ravens: Rashon Bateman, 680 yards
Chiefs: DeAndre Hopkins, 437 yards
Chargers: Josh Palmer, 584 yards
Broncos: Marvin Mims, 452 yards
Steelers: Calvin Austin III, 548 yards
Texans: Tank Dell, 667 yards

Just proving my point that for all of the many MANY faults of the Bengals FO, we have been very good at getting WRs. Guy does better than every #2 WR on a winning AFC team and the first instinct is "sure, but he's not THAT good of a #2" (really just meaning he's not a 900-1000 yard WR and probably a bad team's #1).

(12-30-2024, 10:37 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: This would be the first time burrow has missed the playoffs when finishing the season.   So the “once again” part isn’t entirely true.  

The bengals are 7-4 this year when the 3 play together.  They are 1-4 in the games Tee hasn’t played. Tee gives us our best chance to win, as currently constructed.  Letting him go next year will undoubtedly make the offense worse, and I don’t believe it will make our defense decidedly better.

(12-31-2024, 08:58 AM)Go Cards Wrote: It is true because when you put all the money into just the passing game (on only 3 players) it is paramount that they all 3 play to give the team a chance. Their bad track record of not doing so has to factor into the equation. They all 3 have injury history of missing games. 

Plus one of the reasons to do this is so that the Bengals are constructed differently and can feature a good defense or OL with the extra $30 million they don't give Tee. Then use the draft pick received in trade to target his replacement.

Especially if you're pointing out they the Bengals are 1-4 without all three playing meaning they're only winning at a 20% clip when just 1 sits. 

This is putting all ones eggs in one basket and is fools gold. Burrow and Chase are good enough to make most #2 WR be adequate or very good. Heck Burrow gets an average TE paid yearly only to watch them fall off a cliff without him. Trust me Burrow is the key piece, not Tee and Joe needs to be better protected for when he goes down so does the Bengals chances at anything.  

But once again if Burrow and Chase take significant cuts in pay then it will work. If not and wanting to pay all 3 what they've earned, then it's just crazy talk imho. They've all 3 earned a kings ransom and should be compensated. 

(12-31-2024, 09:29 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: No one has said who they would target in free agency, they just say “get this guy.”  How did Rankins work out?  Alex Cappa, Trent brown, OBJ?  As far as draft picks go.. Tee is our 3rd best player drafted in over a decade.

I get the concept of what you are saying, but the reality is that you if you let tee walk (top 3-4 player on the team), you will likely just be replacing with a middle of the road somewhere else.

(12-31-2024, 10:47 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: there is "no concept" to what he saying..you don't pay three players over 100 million on a team that has so many holes to fill..and if the Bengals front office does not get its act in order specific to the draft and free agency...we will be right back in the same place next year

(12-31-2024, 02:13 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: This is the part that many people don’t comprehend.  Tee Higgins is almost universally thought of as the premier (#1 overall) FA this offseason.  

The best DE is Khalil Mack. 33 years old, 6 sacks in 2024
Others, Hassan Reddick (30), Josh sweat…

DT Milton Williams is the best interior option.

There is opportunity with CB and OL, but it shouldn’t be at the expense of retaining your third or 4th best player when the replacement player isn’t likely to be of similar impact.  

The chiefs made a choice to get rid of Hill because they legitimately had equally impactful guys at other positions (TE, DT).  They have struggled mightily to replace him.  I know.. they are still winning.  

If/when the bengals have 4 hall of fame players on their team, it will be tough to figure out… but that isn’t the case right now.

(12-31-2024, 11:03 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: You can if structured right.  You can if it’s your best 3 players.

Average Annual Salary (2024), this is not exhaustive:
Jared Goff - $53m
St Brown - $30m
Sewell - $28m

Hurts $51m
Brown $32m
Smith $25m

Jordan Love $55m
Rashawn Gary $24m
Kenny Clark $21m

If you don’t pay Higgins, who else are you going to pay?  Enlighten me, since I am so dumb.  

You pay your best players, regardless of position.  When you draft well and have to start making tough decisions, let’s talk.

(12-31-2024, 02:27 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: This is silly.  Those teams have impact players at other positions, the bengals don’t.  The FA crop isn’t great this offseason, so until the bengals draft and develop some impact players, you don’t let your best players leave.  LT, LG and S had/have been issues for years after we had above average players at those positions.

For a team that isn’t great at scouting, let’s let one of the few difference makers leave.  It would be letting 2/4 drafted players in over a decade leave.  Not good.