(08-09-2021, 12:05 PM)XenoMorph Wrote:   IE drafting 3 guys doesnt help as much as if we signed some seasoned depth/ other to compete for starting spots. to go with a draft pick or 2.

(08-09-2021, 12:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yoy mean like signing the 10th highest paid RT in the league?

(08-09-2021, 12:04 PM)GodFather Wrote: So one example you have? Should I make the list of players who did get better with time? I think in the end my list will be longer.

(08-08-2021, 11:45 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Quit being nice

We’re in an argument here!

(08-09-2021, 11:37 AM)GodFather Wrote: For sure, love the Reiff pick up. Let’s hope this line is able to protect our biggest asset this season!

(08-09-2021, 12:42 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Terrible value. Thankfully it’s a 1 year deal

(08-09-2021, 12:52 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You are the one making dumb claims and in bold (below). It took me 2 seconds to refute your ridiculous comment.

"That’s ridiculous. If a player is a day one starter from draft he will only get better in time"


I did not see the word may, just the word WILL!!! Make matter of fact statements and they need to be factual. This one was not.

(08-08-2021, 06:19 PM)Emeritus Wrote: This is Zacs team now and the owner said it with conviction. So lets not start this narrative. Its Zacs TEAM.

(08-08-2021, 08:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Wow, sounds like we don't have a LT or a RT now...

Jonah Williams and Riley Reiff do not exist.

(08-08-2021, 08:15 PM)Joelist Wrote: This gets a bit boring. Carman is learning a new position and the coaches have said he is starting to get it. But many of the same bunch who were loudly advocating to draft Sewell just have to talk down Carman for some reason. 

(08-09-2021, 11:46 AM)tms Wrote: Are you from the straw man factory? We were looking for you. We were running out of supplies to protect our we-don't-ever-need-to-do-anything crops, and you came through like divine intervention. Nice to see.

Your two questions can sort of be grouped together. If motivation is not his problem, then he's not good enough. Would that not be worse? Given the depth of the draft class, we were promised somebody who would be good enough and somebody who would be slotted in there right now. Urgency was the word of the day. This wasn't a 'project' draft for us, we did not have that luxury. Our QB had had his knee theismann'd, and we were told that we would do everything in our power to protect him from this day forward (FA, draft and coach). Literally nobody was saying, "We're gonna snag a backup guard in R2 and see what happens a few years down the road"- there would have been fireworks. That was not the bargain. Nobody was talking about a backup IOL at his presser. So motivation would be the lesser of the two evils here. You don't want him not being good enough, as it would imply outright negligence in view of the "deepest draft class" in recent memory.

So ok, they chose Carman as their horse, now they gotta ride him. Camp started with the "you have to earn it!" rhetoric. Which is all well and good, even intuitive, but I don't hear such an emphasis being placed on "earning" it in... Vegas with Leatherwood, KC with Creed (and Trey Smith for that matter), NY with AVT, Denver with Meinerz, Zim with Wyatt Davis, on down the line, whether they're starting or not. This is professional football, after all. These draft picks needn't be reminded of having to earn it if they have their head screwed on straight. Hell, I don't even see them talking about that in Chicago with Teven, who hasn't taken a rep yet- or Borom, who's been his replacement. The mere fact that you're hearing about it over and over in Cincinnati is not a good sign. Of course it implies motivation issues.

Which is only reinforced by the fact that they played MICHAEL FREAKING JORDAN with the starters yesterday. Is that part of the master plan to protect Joe too? To move the same guy who literally apologized to Burrow for being bull-rushed so bad by J Allen that Burrow had to spend the next 8 months in recovery, just to the other side of the line? No, they're running out of wrenches in the toolkit and resorting to this. It's not like Carman is waiting behind Alan Faneca. You can't even argue they're showing him "tough love" since his rookie peer was out there with the starters on the other side. So feel free turn and look the other way if you want to, but it would just be more of the same. 

They needed a plug and play, we were promised a plug and play, and he's been anything but a plug and play. That's evident. He's sliding on the depth chart before playing in any games. That's also evident. So while I appreciate your straw men, you should save them for next April when they can be of better use. 

(08-09-2021, 04:33 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Oh, you were taking me literally. I was making fun.

I've wanted him gone after 2 wins. He's already overstayed his welcome as far as I'm concerned.

 

(08-09-2021, 06:22 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Meh, I'll give him one more year but I will say that as soon as ZT won 2 games and got us in place to pick Burrow I was 97% sure that was going to be his greatest contribution to this organization.  

(08-09-2021, 05:34 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The line is comprised of 5 positions, Nate.



What is boring is pretending people are saying Carman is trash when Luvnits poll proved that there's only 1-2 guys on here who actually think that way. The rest have simply expressed legitimate concerns that (a) we didn't do enough to improve the line and (b) that Carman is off to a rough start.

It's the other side that's flipping a wig over it. No one is saying the season is over, and no one is saying Carman is a wasted pick or any other hyperbolic nonsense. Outside of one guy. You guys are just doing that thing where you pretend people's opinions are far more extreme than they actually are, because it's easier to argue against an extreme and irrational stance.

(08-09-2021, 11:46 AM)tms Wrote: Are you from the straw man factory? We were looking for you. We were running out of supplies to protect our we-don't-ever-need-to-do-anything crops, and you came through like divine intervention. Nice to see.

(08-09-2021, 11:46 AM)tms Wrote: Your two questions can sort of be grouped together. If motivation is not his problem, then he's not good enough. Would that not be worse? 

(08-09-2021, 11:46 AM)tms Wrote:  Nobody was talking about a backup IOL at his presser.

(08-09-2021, 06:13 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: We were not promised a plug and play guy.  All I heard was that he would have a learning curve moving inside and that the long term plan would be that he could replace Reiff.  Nothing like that sounds like plug and play.  Why in the world would Carman be considered plug and play when he never played OG in college?

(08-09-2021, 11:10 PM)tms Wrote: Please ask them that! Don't frame it like I was ever for playing Carman inside- or playing Carman anywhere lol. I didn't want Carman at all. I'm just holding them to account for what they said. Of course there's a learning curve! But that was (allegedly) factored into the equation. I remember hearing 'them' say that he was more polished than Penei for playing one year at RG, before swinging him outside in year two. Fine. I won't argue.

The logic was that the drop-off from Chase to < insert R2 wideout here > was greater than Sewell to < insert R2 OL here >. Period, full stop, point finale. We could get a receiver to go over the top of the defense and a cog to reinforce the matador-esque line that put Burrow on the shelf, with our first two picks; and the OL was sooo deep that there were more than enough names from which to choose. Again, fine. Their call. Point being, we weren't looking for projects at either position. This didn't happen that long ago! It is absolute revisionist history to say that people would have been content with that . This is a team that won 4 games last year, and we were coming out of there with at least two new starters- come hell or high water.

Problem is, we couldn't even do that right. We went off the board in R2 for... god knows knows what reason... probably starts with "Fairfield" and ends in "High School"... and today, barely three months later, our R4 is slotted higher on the depth chart than said R2. Our R2 is already making headlines for all the wrong reasons. In fact, if things don't change over the next month, we'll be rolling with 4 of the 5 starters from last year. No matter how you look at it, that is scandalous.

(08-09-2021, 12:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Wanted to leave on a good note last night. Now we can get back to it!


Think it will, happy to hear about D'Ante playing so good already and up to 320 pounds.

(08-09-2021, 11:20 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Violence is never the answer, Nate.

Unless the question is, "what does v,i,o,l,e,n,c,e spell?"

(08-09-2021, 10:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Interesting that a "draftnick" like you could not answer my question about how many second round rookies start opening day and how many of them "lack the focus for the NFL"?