(02-23-2017, 03:16 PM)bengals67 Wrote: Marv's policy on not playing high draft picks is idiotic. This is the main issue with Dennard.

They aren't college freshman.

Is there any other team that does not give substantial PT to first and second round picks?

(02-23-2017, 04:56 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I want Kirkpatrick back. If Pacman was going to be cut I think it would have happened already. WJ3 may be our best corner. Josh Shaw is good. Russell was a 3rd round pick last year and we obviously like his potential.

Darqueze is just wasting away on our team. If he gets a chance to play he gets hurt. Would we even notice if he was gone? Its been 3 years...

Another guy drafted much higher in the same year as Darqueze is having the same type of bust labeled career. He is a mammoth athletic prototype LT. Greg Robinson was the #2 overall pick in 2014 going to the horribly coached Rams. He started at G was moved out to T and now there is talk he will go back to G.

Dont get me wrong Marvin Lewis and the piano man are below average coaches. But they are not as bad as Jeff Fisher who coached Robinson with the Rams.

Greg Robinson is only 24 and with a new coaching staff taking over the Rams they may be willing to give up on a previous regimes draft bust. We may be in need of more bodies at T or just on the OL. The Rams could use help at CB. Robinson does have more game experience than Darqueze, though it isnt anything to brag about. The Rams are also missing their 1st and 3rd round picks in the draft this year due to the Goff trade.

I would trade Darqueze for Greg Robinson straight up. If they balk sweeten up the deal with a late 6th or 7th.

I loved Greg Robinson in the draft and think his career is salvageable. Would you trade Darqueze for Robinson?

(02-25-2017, 10:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Dennard has played 585 defensive snaps. Lets not pretend that he's never touched the field in his career so far.

Cool story about Aaron Rodgers. Show me the Brett Favre that Dennard is stuck behind and I will be glad to agree with you. But until you can point out the first ballot Hall of Famer he's stuck behind, I will point out to you that Dennard got passed up by Josh Shaw on the depth chart. A guy who is both younger, drafted later, and had less experience than Dennard coming into '16.

If they draft me in the first round and don't get a ton of playing time, and get passed up on the depth chart by younger guys, maybe I am just not any good. Just throwing out a thought there. You say he can't be judged because he has gotten no playing time. I say he hasn't gotten an abundance of playing time because he isn't very good. Shaw got a small taste of playing time in '15 and impressed. Dennard didn't.



You can end up being a good player in the end and still be a bust. Reggie Nelson was a bust for the Jags, got traded for David Jones (who was going to be cut anyway), and ended up becoming a great player with the Bengals. Doesn't make him any less of a bust for the Jags who used a 1st round pick on him.

Kirkpatrick was indeed pretty good last year, but you don't spend the 17th overall pick on a CB who doesn't become decent until year 5. Those players are called busts. People get too wrapped up with equating bust to a player being garbage. A mediocre starting QB chosen 1st overall is a bust. A mediocre starting QB chosen in the 4th round is a great pick. It's all about context.

(02-25-2017, 10:56 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I agree with some of what you say here. Injuries have to be taken into account though and some great players are
made of glass like Bob Sanders and maybe even Tyler Eifert. Dennard might be one of them, i would just like to see
what he has before i call him a bust. He has fluid hips and great ball skills.

I still have high hopes for the man and am just hoping he is not made of fine china.

Heck, Frostee Rucker took many years and seemed like glass as well, he did okay here after awhile and in Zona.

(02-25-2017, 10:31 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'm not ready to give up on Dennard. Plus, trading for Robinson basically means that we won't be signing a free agent Tackle...OR that we let Whitworth go. We'd be relying on essentially 2 Tackle busts in Robinson and Ced...assuming Fisher is the starting RT.

(02-25-2017, 08:19 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There's no such thing in the NFL as a 1st round pick heading into his 4th year/age 26 season, who is a prospect.

(02-25-2017, 10:15 PM)Derrick Wrote: The same criticism could be used for Burkhead. I blame the HC and assistant coaches for almost never playing Burkhead in 4 years. He is a mini-Cinderella story. And those don't come along very often. Typical Marvin Lewis coaching.
Likely Burkhead will be leaving the Bengals this off season as a FA. I am done will Hill!!!

(02-25-2017, 10:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Dennard has played 585 defensive snaps. Lets not pretend that he's never touched the field in his career so far.

Cool story about Aaron Rodgers. Show me the Brett Favre that Dennard is stuck behind and I will be glad to agree with you. But until you can point out the first ballot Hall of Famer he's stuck behind, I will point out to you that Dennard got passed up by Josh Shaw on the depth chart. A guy who is both younger, drafted later, and had less experience than Dennard coming into '16.

If they draft me in the first round and don't get a ton of playing time, and get passed up on the depth chart by younger guys, maybe I am just not any good. Just throwing out a thought there. You say he can't be judged because he has gotten no playing time. I say he hasn't gotten an abundance of playing time because he isn't very good. Shaw got a small taste of playing time in '15 and impressed. Dennard didn't.



You can end up being a good player in the end and still be a bust. Reggie Nelson was a bust for the Jags, got traded for David Jones (who was going to be cut anyway), and ended up becoming a great player with the Bengals. Doesn't make him any less of a bust for the Jags who used a 1st round pick on him.

Kirkpatrick was indeed pretty good last year, but you don't spend the 17th overall pick on a CB who doesn't become decent until year 5. Those players are called busts. People get too wrapped up with equating bust to a player being garbage. A mediocre starting QB chosen 1st overall is a bust. A mediocre starting QB chosen in the 4th round is a great pick. It's all about context.

(02-25-2017, 11:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Sure, injuries can be taken into account. A bad luck injury (Gio's torn ACL on a play that didn't look like anything, Dalton's broken thumb) is one thing, but if you keep getting banged up or hurt, it's another. Staying healthy is a skill, too. The reason why Sanders/Eifert/etc aren't technically busts is because of how dominate they are/were when healthy. Dennard doesn't have that.

I doubt his ball skills. He's played 585 defensive snaps. Last year ~1100 snaps was a whole season. So in a little over half a season of play, he has 84 tackles, 1 sack, 5 Pdef, 1 INT, 0 FF... that would pace out to be roughly a 160 tackle, 2 sack, 10 Pdef, 2 INT, 0 FF full season. Maybe good numbers for a linebacker, but terrible for a CB.

It's one thing if you don't have a lot of Pdef and INT because people aren't challenging your coverage (Revis in '10 had 32 tackles, 10 Pdef, 0 INT because nobody wanted a ball anywhere near him), but CBs getting that many tackles is a bad sign, doubly so when there's so little play on the ball. It means there's a lot of completions in his coverage and he then makes the tackle after it's completed. For example, DeAngelo Hall a couple years back when he had three straight years of 90+ tackles at CB because even though he made plays on balls, he gave up a bajillion yards/completions.

I honestly think Dennard's future in the NFL is at safety and he could have success there.

(02-26-2017, 02:43 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Kirk didn't magically become "decent". He needed playing time just like Dennard. Why did he need playing time? To contribute to his experience as playing at the highest level of the game I'm sure isn't an easy thing to do. That game day experienced combined with the experience a player obtains by being healthy, practicing, building chemistry/trust with the coaches and teammates helps develop them into a good player. You miss out on all of that when you are injured and an important portion of it when you don't get the chance to play. It's called player development. You just want to skip that part though and watch them play like an all-pro like a video game.