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RE: If Z walks.... - TheLeonardLeap - 03-05-2017
(03-05-2017, 12:39 AM)phil413 Wrote: Ced was disgusting last year, but even the amazing Geno Atkins came back weak after tearing an ACL. I'm not defending Ced, but Cincy owes him nothing. Rather than label him a bust though, he's on the outside looking in as a starter and if he shows signs of being the player they thought they were drafting he may get a shot somewhere.
So I'd plan on him backing up LT and possibly RT, with Winston one more year as insurance if Ced can do neither. Provided Whit returns, if Ced outplays Fisher they should consider him back at RT rather than sit for two seasons. Then, we get to the scenario you speak of. There shouldn't be a plan for Ced to start anywhere. I want a plan more stable than Westerman at RG, but IF they go that way then they've been training him to take the RG spot. If Ced outplays him and somehow picks up the skills to start at RG, so be it. I just don't think it's realistic. I want him to come back and make something of himself at tackle at least as a backup and anything above that is great....but never a plan.
Atkins was "just a guy" less than a year after his ACL injury.
Ogbuehi was the worst OT I have ever seen just shy of two years after his ACL injury.
That's not really comparable, Phil. Maybe if it was his rookie season, but that was year 2.
RE: If Z walks.... - THE PISTONS - 03-06-2017
(03-05-2017, 01:52 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Atkins was "just a guy" less than a year after his ACL injury.
Ogbuehi was the worst OT I have ever seen just shy of two years after his ACL injury.
That's not really comparable, Phil. Maybe if it was his rookie season, but that was year 2.
Yep. Ced has a really athletic body and relied on that in college...but he's extremely weak for an OT.
His issues aren't ACL related. He needs to get much stronger.
RE: If Z walks.... - Wyche'sWarrior - 03-06-2017
(03-04-2017, 06:39 PM)CINwillWIN Wrote: Amazes me how much uncertainty there is on our front 5. Andy must be pulling his hair out...
.....it happened once before, and our QB demanded a trade....
RE: If Z walks.... - SHRacerX - 03-06-2017
(03-04-2017, 04:16 PM)spazz70 Wrote: Is there a reason that CedO cannot slide inside to G? I have seen many Tackle prospects make this move in the NFL in the past. Are his physical attributes suited to play G?
Just a thought as if we do sign Whit and then Boling at LG, go sign Mangold, CedO at RG, Fisher at RT
Mangold has a MB signing all over it. Ohio kid, high draft pick, cut from current team.
Maybe a second round pick on RT?
I think this would make our OL a lot better than last year.
Just my two cents:
Ced O should be nothing more than the extra TE at the goal line or short yardage until he shows he is ready to either replace Whit or gets released.
Tackles that struggle and move to guard are usually big, strong, but not as athletic and light on their feet as is needed for the tackle position. Some of them are successful moving to guard. That is not Ced in any way shape or form. His supposed strength was his quickness and agility, but he appears (thus far) to be a massive whiff on talent evaluation.
A second round pick on a guy like Dan Feeney would make a ton of sense. He could plug in and play right away and would allow for Whit and Dre to be signed with the savings of not paying Zeitler.
I would have killed to have Mangold years ago, but he isn't anywhere near what he once was and it just isn't true that Mangold at 25% is better than Bodine. I wish things were different but I don't see him helping the Bengals at all.
The best scenario is they trade AJM and/or slide back in Rd 1 and get as many as two extra 2nd round picks so they could get the Guard and Center (Elflein?) in addition to an impact LB, DE, WR, or CB.
RE: If Z walks.... - THE PISTONS - 03-06-2017
Another 2nd Round pick would be awesome.
You figure, if we can fill 3 needs in this draft it's a huge win.
In Round 1, get a star WR, RB, or ILB in Foster. Heck if a star Safety falls, or a DE...that's on the board too.
Then in the 2nd Round...get a Center.
Then with another 2nd Round pick, we could get one of the positions I listed in Round 1.
RE: If Z walks.... - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 03-06-2017
(03-06-2017, 01:23 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Just my two cents:
Ced O should be nothing more than the extra TE at the goal line or short yardage until he shows he is ready to either replace Whit or gets released.
Tackles that struggle and move to guard are usually big, strong, but not as athletic and light on their feet as is needed for the tackle position. Some of them are successful moving to guard. That is not Ced in any way shape or form. His supposed strength was his quickness and agility, but he appears (thus far) to be a massive whiff on talent evaluation.
A second round pick on a guy like Dan Feeney would make a ton of sense. He could plug in and play right away and would allow for Whit and Dre to be signed with the savings of not paying Zeitler.
I would have killed to have Mangold years ago, but he isn't anywhere near what he once was and it just isn't true that Mangold at 25% is better than Bodine. I wish things were different but I don't see him helping the Bengals at all.
The best scenario is they trade AJM and/or slide back in Rd 1 and get as many as two extra 2nd round picks so they could get the Guard and Center (Elflein?) in addition to an impact LB, DE, WR, or CB.
Nice post SHRacer. Would definately like Feeney in the 2nd.
Very true about OT's that move to Guard. Andre Smith actually might be able to pull this off cause he is big and
strong and is a decent run blocker. Ogbuehi has none of the qualities needed at the Guard position.
RE: If Z walks.... - Aquapod770 - 03-06-2017
He doesn't have the strength. Plus he gets beat by every move imaginable.
RE: If Z walks.... - SHRacerX - 03-06-2017
(03-06-2017, 03:13 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: He doesn't have the strength. Plus he gets beat by every move imaginable.
Wait. You are saying he should be our center?
RE: If Z walks.... - phil413 - 03-07-2017
(03-05-2017, 01:52 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Atkins was "just a guy" less than a year after his ACL injury.
Ogbuehi was the worst OT I have ever seen just shy of two years after his ACL injury.
That's not really comparable, Phil. Maybe if it was his rookie season, but that was year 2.
You're right that the comparison was short sighted. My point was that that injury puts anyone behind schedule (not comparing talents), and that his real rookie season isn't much of a marker and last season was the first year he was up to speed physically regardless of it being his 2nd year mentally. To me, the kid is on the outside looking in no matter how it comes across like I'm defending the guy. I chalk last year as a bad one and if he shocks us all so be it but I'm not counting on it, especially not enough to consider him a real option to start anywhere today.
RE: If Z walks.... - Housh - 03-07-2017
(03-04-2017, 06:39 PM)CINwillWIN Wrote: Amazes me how much uncertainty there is on our front 5. Andy must be pulling his hair out...
On its face this is my biggest gripe about the whole situation. Not specific personnel but the point that there doesn't seem to be a plan in place.
RE: If Z walks.... - TheLeonardLeap - 03-07-2017
These numbers are all pretty high, because it's from an Agent's point of view of what he'd try to ask for contracts, but...
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-target-prices-for-five-franchise-tagged-players-and-10-free-agents/
Zeitler at 5yr/$60m
$12m/yr is an awful lot for a 0 time Pro Bowl, 0 time All-Pro, Guard. I think that's why we don't see this happen with the Bengals.... well that and the fact that the Bengals only have $15m to spend.
RE: If Z walks.... - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 03-07-2017
(03-07-2017, 07:55 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: These numbers are all pretty high, because it's from an Agent's point of view of what he'd try to ask for contracts, but...
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-target-prices-for-five-franchise-tagged-players-and-10-free-agents/
Zeitler at 5yr/$60m
$12m/yr is an awful lot for a 0 time Pro Bowl, 0 time All-Pro, Guard. I think that's why we don't see this happen with the Bengals.... well that and the fact that the Bengals only have $15m to spend.
Ridiculous. He is not even a good run blocker and i would argue when healthy Boling is much better all the way around.
I saw numerous times last year when Zeitler tried to pull block and was too slow to get to the other side of the line and
D-lineman and LB'ers would stop our RB's for a loss. Boling is a good pull blocker on the other hand and is solid in pass
protection. We got a deal with Boling IMHO.
We should bring back Whitworth and add a player like Wisnewski at Center in FA. Westerman, Bodine, Hopkins and a
Draft pick can all battle for the RG spot.
RE: If Z walks.... - zygrot24 - 03-07-2017
(03-04-2017, 04:16 PM)spazz70 Wrote: Is there a reason that CedO cannot slide inside to G? I have seen many Tackle prospects make this move in the NFL in the past. Are his physical attributes suited to play G?
Just a thought as if we do sign Whit and then Boling at LG, go sign Mangold, CedO at RG, Fisher at RT
Mangold has a MB signing all over it. Ohio kid, high draft pick, cut from current team.
Maybe a second round pick on RT?
I think this would make our OL a lot better than last year.
Lost me at signing mangold. We're letting big Z walk, and using the guys we have and maybe a draft pick. If they let Z walk and do sign mangold , that literally doesn't make sense to me