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+--- Thread: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? (/thread-11251.html)
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - cincyfan429 - 05-16-2017
Well the team is need of a HOF they only have 1 and that's probably the worst in the NFL. Great job drafting years ago when the Bengals got a top 5 pick every year and made some terrible picks. People are right if they don't win or at least get to a Super Bowl they wont get in.
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - Millhouse - 05-16-2017
I want to say yes for AJ and maybe for Geno.
But until they do something impactful in the posteason as a win with it would help, I have to lean towards no for both right now. They dont have to win the SUper Bowl either, just do something big is all at least once in the postseason. Now if they had monstrous stats, then postseason may not matter as much if at all.
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - THE PISTONS - 05-16-2017
(05-16-2017, 01:41 AM)Gohards Wrote: I like how you put that geno is "only" 29, but when it comes to aj you act like 29 is old.
Hof= popularity contest. I think Aj def gets in the hall if he keeps doing what hes doing. Hes a very popular player around the league and will have #s to back it up.
Geno is a top 3 DT of his generation, but isn't popular among the public. Id say he barely misses the hall.
I don't know...the HOF is more statistics based than a popularity contest.
A 29 year old WR is generally older than a 29 year old DT. DT's play with productivity until 34-35 fairly regularly. At WR, they generally start to decline at 30-31.
I would think that both SHOULD be in the HOF...but it's really hard to tell. Guys like TO aren't in. There are a lot of great WR's that put up stats.
Really to guarantee them in, we have to start winning playoff games.
Willie Anderson likely doesn't make it solely because he played on really bad teams.
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - Quantum Bengal - 05-16-2017
(05-16-2017, 01:12 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Geno currently ranks "only" 157th all-time in sacks with 52.0, but 99% of the players ahead of him were either 4-3 DE's or 3-4 rush LBs. He's already received 5 pro bowl nods and is a 2 time first team All-Pro. His resume is already among the greatest DT's of all-time, and he's only 29, so he has a few years to pad it. Fwiw, if Geno can notch only 20 more sacks for his career, he'd finish right around 80th all-time in sacks, with only a tiny handful of DTs having more.
AJ Green is actually further off than I thought. He's currently sitting at 481 catches, 7135 yards and 49 TDs. He'd likely needs to double up those numbers to get serious HOF consideration, and at 29 years old, I'd say that's possible but unlikely. He needs 271 catches and 3649 yards and 18 TDs to surpass Chad's franchise records, which he should be able to pull off. He does have 6 Pro Bowl nods already.
So do you guys think either has a realistic shot at the Hall? I would also mention Whit, but like Big Willie, he just didn't get the recognition he needed and deserved.
If they can win a Super Bowl, they both can make it.
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - eoxyod - 05-16-2017
Geno arguably has a higher reputation than AJ. The only DT that people really consider better overall is Donald. AJ is obviously considered a top 5 WR in the league but there's always a logjam at WR for the HoF. If we win a SB, both will get in. If not, I think Geno can but AJ will not going on current career trajectory
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - BengalFanInNJ - 05-16-2017
I always thought the Hall of Fame was for INDIVIDUAL honors but clearly I am wrong based on whom they have in there and whom they don't. It's almost like the Pro Bowl to me now.
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - eoxyod - 05-16-2017
(05-16-2017, 03:33 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: I always thought the Hall of Fame was for INDIVIDUAL honors but clearly I am wrong based on whom they have in there and whom they don't. It's almost like the Pro Bowl to me now.
Pretty clearly all the best players and contributors in NFL history are in there. The players that are in there who might not be the best in the league were still great players in their era, but also had profound effects on the shape on the NFL. Overall team success is still needed, but if we make a couple of actual playoff runs then those 2 would be shoe ins
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - BengalFanInNJ - 05-16-2017
(05-16-2017, 03:43 PM)eoxyod Wrote: Pretty clearly all the best players and contributors in NFL history are in there. The players that are in there who might not be the best in the league were still great players in their era, but also had profound effects on the shape on the NFL. Overall team success is still needed, but if we make a couple of actual playoff runs then those 2 would be shoe ins
You're right. Overall team success is still needed but I think it's weighed to heavily. The fact that Terry Bradshaw and his 70.9 career passer rating (that's right, 70.9) is in the HoF while Ken Anderson and his 81.9 career passer rating is not in the HoF is complete bullshite. Bradshaw said that he wasn't even the best QB in his division because Ken Anderson was. I get that 4 Super Bowl wins is a huge accomplishment, but they won those with their defense. Don't even get me started on Joe Namath.
Also, Lynn Swann in the HoF?? His numbers aren't good at all. Isaac Curtis' numbers are better than his and I don't think he deserves to be in either. John Stallworth's numbers aren't very good either but, I agree as you said, team success is still taken into account.
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - Bengal Dude - 05-16-2017
I can see AJ getting in at some point. I love Geno, but if he gets in, it'll be because of the Senior Committee.
However, Ken Anderson still isn't in so who knows how long it'll be before we see another Bengal in the HOF.
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - Gohards - 05-16-2017
(05-16-2017, 02:13 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't know...the HOF is more statistics based than a popularity contest.
10 Seasons
11,241 yards
86 TDs
4.3 YPC
1 Ring
13 Seasons
13,662 yards
91 TDs
3.9 YPC
1 Ring
One is a first ballot HOFer
The other is not even considered.
One is a household name.
One wasnt.
Can you guess which one is in the HOF?
Stats are a part of it, but popularity is the biggest factor
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - Bengalbug - 05-16-2017
(05-16-2017, 04:39 PM)Gohards Wrote: 10 Seasons
11,241 yards
86 TDs
4.3 YPC
1 Ring
13 Seasons
13,662 yards
91 TDs
3.9 YPC
1 Ring
One is a first ballot HOFer
The other is not even considered.
One is a household name.
One wasnt.
Can you guess which one is in the HOF?
Stats are a part of it, but popularity is the biggest factor
One was on a consistent winner and one was on a perennial loser. One quit on his team the other didn't.
But you are right, steelers always get more love
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - Shake n Blake - 05-16-2017
(05-16-2017, 04:52 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: One was on a consistent winner and one was on a perennial loser. One quit on his team the other didn't.
Both players asked to be traded from terrible teams. The difference is one got out early while the other spent nearly his whole career with the loser. Guess that guy was more loyal and got punished for it.
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - Lionel Hutz - 05-17-2017
Regardless of NFL HOF chances, can we all agree that the Bengals need to start some kind of HOF or Ring of Honor to honor their past players? Guys like Ken Anderson, Boomer Esiason, Andrew Whitworth, Chad Johnson, etc. should be recognized for their contributions to the organization if the NFL won't ever do so.
As for AJ and Geno, still too early to tell, but some post-season success seems like a necessity for it to happen unless they put up huge numbers for another 4-5 years.
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 05-17-2017
(05-16-2017, 01:12 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Geno currently ranks "only" 157th all-time in sacks with 52.0, but 99% of the players ahead of him were either 4-3 DE's or 3-4 rush LBs. He's already received 5 pro bowl nods and is a 2 time first team All-Pro. His resume is already among the greatest DT's of all-time, and he's only 29, so he has a few years to pad it. Fwiw, if Geno can notch only 20 more sacks for his career, he'd finish right around 80th all-time in sacks, with only a tiny handful of DTs having more.
AJ Green is actually further off than I thought. He's currently sitting at 481 catches, 7135 yards and 49 TDs. He'd likely needs to double up those numbers to get serious HOF consideration, and at 29 years old, I'd say that's possible but unlikely. He needs 271 catches and 3649 yards and 18 TDs to surpass Chad's franchise records, which he should be able to pull off. He does have 6 Pro Bowl nods already.
So do you guys think either has a realistic shot at the Hall? I would also mention Whit, but like Big Willie, he just didn't get the recognition he needed and deserved.
Man i sure wish we could give them a better shot by going all the way to the Superbowl and winning it.
That would push them both over that edge. Great players but they need a great team around them to get in the HOF as
we have seen from the past. Lots of great players still haven't made it cause of this reason.
Unfair that guys like Kenny Anderson and Ken Riley don't make it but it is what it is.
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - HarleyDog - 05-17-2017
(05-17-2017, 01:10 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Man i sure wish we could give them a better shot by going all the way to the Superbowl and winning it.
I agree. This would increase their chances. They are both great guys. They both play hard and have a desire to win every play. In the end, I hope they get it but your right. The teams as a whole has to step up and increase the chances.
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - EatonFan - 05-18-2017
If we pulled off back to back SB wins, they'll be in. If we stay the winless Bengals in the playoffs or just miss the playoffs each year, they won't. Look at Terry Bradshaws' numbers.
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - J24 - 05-19-2017
A couple of other points about Geno.
1.) PFF will help him out a lot; HOF writers love analytics and Geno is judged greatly by them.
2.) If he keeps up his sack pace he will easily beat out both HOF DT candidates in his era in both Suh and McCoy.
3.) Geno didn't get the playing time he should of during his rookie season if he did he probably would have ended up with at least 6 sacks that year(anyone that watched new he was the best player on defense). He also missed a half year in 2013 and wasn't himself the following year in 2014(although he was a lot better than given credit for) because of an ACL injury. If he didn't have that significant of an injury his numbers would be a lot higher. My estimations would have him at 66 sacks( that's a conservative number)for his career(9.4 sacks a season)so far. If he plays 14 seasons totals with the above total he would be on pace to finish with 131.5 sacks as a defensive tackle. unfortunately though those things didn't happen so right now he has 52 sacks(7.4) still though if he continues at that pace and plays to his 14th season he would have 103.6 sacks still good enough to be in the hall.
So I change my mind Geno could retire today and have a decent argument at being in the Hall. If he plays 5 to 7 more years at this pace(which shouldn't be that hard) he would be a lock in the Hall.
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - TheLeonardLeap - 05-19-2017
Essentially 0% chance.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
QB A:
51.9% completion, 27,989 yards, 7.2 YPA, 212 TD/210 INT, 70.9 QB Rating
Pro Bowl x3, 1st Team All-Pro x1, MVP x1
QB B:
59.3% completion, 32,838 yards, 7.3 YPA, 197 TD/160 INT, 81.9 QB Rating
Pro Bowl x4, 2nd Team All-Pro x2, 1st Team All-Pro x1, MVP x1
QB C:
50.1% completion, 27,663 yards, 7.4 YPA, 173 TD/220 INT, 65.5 QB Rating
Pro Bowl x1, 2nd Team All-Pro x1
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
WR A:
336 catches, 5,462 yards, 16.3 AVG, 51 TD
Pro Bowl x2, 2nd Team All-Pro x2, 1st Team All-Pro x1
WR B:
416 catches, 7,101 yards, 17.1 AVG, 53 TD
Pro Bowl x4
WR C:
417 catches, 6,698 yards, 16.1 AVG, 36 TD
Pro Bowl x3, 2nd Team All-Pro x3, 1st Team All-Pro x1
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
QB A: Terry Bradshaw, HOFer
QB B: Ken Anderson
QB C: Joe Namath, HOFer
WR A: Lynn Swann, HOFer
WR B: Issac Curtis
WB C: Cris Collinsworth
Meanwhile Ken Riley is still tied for 5th all time in INT and isn't in, either.
So the only way a Bengal player gets in is if they put together like 11 Pro Bowls and 11 All-Pro appearances like Munoz, where they just can't neglect him... or if they play a couple years for the Bengals and then go play for the Steelers. Good luck matching Munoz in Pro Bowl/All-Pros, though.
Meanwhile people like sub-4.0 YPC Bettis trot into the HoF because he played for the Steelers and then buddied up with the media folk. "Fun" fact, did you know Bettis went to the Pro Bowl a year he rushed for 3.2 YPC?
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - Bronze Bengal - 05-19-2017
I'd like to see them both get in. They're my two favorite players on the team.
RE: Geno Atkins and AJ Green HOF chances? - Shake n Blake - 05-19-2017
@Leonard Leap:
Bettis getting in was a joke. Compare his career to Dillon's...
Player A:
10 seasons
1124 rush yards per season
4.3 YPC
1315 yards from scrimmage per season
8.9 TDs per season
1 championship - where the offense was centered around him (he missed 1 game, but led the league in rush yards per game)
Asked to be traded from a bad team late in his career
Player B:
13 seasons
1051 rush yards per season
3.9 YPC
1162 yards from scrimmage per season
7.2 TDs per season
1 championship - where he was strictly a short yardage/goal line specialist. 368 rush yards for the season.
Asked to be traded from a bad team early in his career
_________________________
The HOF is too much about bulk career numbers and who you played for, and not enough about sheer dominance during one's prime.