(07-19-2017, 05:20 PM)OrangeLacroix Wrote:   I wish Andy could do more on his own, so a few of these above picks could have been spent on D.

(07-21-2017, 10:25 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Meanwhile the Cowboys have the following starters on their OL:
Tyron Smith, Jonathan Cooper, Travis Frederick, Zack Martin = 1st rounders
La'el Collins = UDFA due to investigation at the time, but was given a 1st round grade for talent (similar to what happened with Burfict).

(07-21-2017, 10:48 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I don't really understand this statement.  While I agree with everything you said about having some high picks and talent at his disposal, remember that they needed quality DEPTH of talent at the so-called skill positions such as WR, TE, etc.  

Last season, when AJ and Eifert were out, Andy had very few weapons that could generate a lot of separation. Subsequently, he had to hold on to the ball longer, and took more hits because of it.  It also made the offensive line look worse that it really was.  Combined with a lack of a vertical threat to stretch the defense and help create voids in coverage underneath and I am pretty damn amazed what Dalton did with his dearth of weapons and protection, not to mention complete lack of a running game.

Where would you have spent the picks on D?  The secondary is loaded with first round talent and our safety position might be our deepest position group.  They signed Minter as a key FA for the LB corps, and have Vigil, Vinny Rey, and a healthy Burfict.  They used two picks on pass rushers, that happened to be two of the best in the draft.  I am still amazed that we got Willis in the third round.  I bet he has a better season than Garrett.

They needed a pounder in the running game that can also catch and got a steal in Mixon.  

The defensive front is already a very crowded position group with guys like Hardison, Glasgow, and Billings all joining the mix.

I think the Bengals FINALLY realized they needed a real vertical threat (and Ross is so much more than just that) opposite AJ Green and I can't wait to see them all on the field together.  Add in a strong TE group and Mixon and the offense might just be able to be a top 5 unit....like the defense.  

(07-21-2017, 11:52 AM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: This has nothing to do with expectations of all #1 and 2 rnd picks to be stars

Few are.

It has more to deal with investing such a high % of your top picks on skill players

(07-21-2017, 10:48 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think the Bengals FINALLY realized they needed a real vertical threat (and Ross is so much more than just that) opposite AJ Green and I can't wait to see them all on the field together. 

(07-21-2017, 11:45 AM)Wyche Wrote: It all starts in the trenches, but we don't "value" interior linemen.....smh.

(07-21-2017, 12:08 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Maybe back in the old days when practically no pressure came from the middle that might have been a sound philosophy, but in today's NFL, there's a ton of pressure coming from the interior. It's really difficult to get by with mid-round interior OL now. Gotta have really good coaching or get a guy with a lot of talent and character issues that caused him to drop in the draft.

(07-21-2017, 12:03 PM)OrangeLacroix Wrote:
I dont disagree with the concept, but andy dalton doesnt have the arm to do this. 

Accuracy Percentage On 16+ Throws: 44.7% (23rd)

Accuracy Percentage on 20+ Throws: 39.7% (24th)

(07-21-2017, 12:03 PM)OrangeLacroix Wrote:
I dont disagree with the concept, but andy dalton doesnt have the arm to do this. 

Accuracy Percentage On 16+ Throws: 44.7% (23rd)

Accuracy Percentage on 20+ Throws: 39.7% (24th)

(07-21-2017, 12:03 PM)OrangeLacroix Wrote:
I dont disagree with the concept, but andy dalton doesnt have the arm to do this. 

Accuracy Percentage On 16+ Throws: 44.7% (23rd)

Accuracy Percentage on 20+ Throws: 39.7% (24th)

(07-21-2017, 11:52 AM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: This has nothing to do with expectations of all #1 and 2 rnd picks to be stars

Few are.

It has more to deal with investing such a high % of your top picks on skill players

There are many other needs on a football field.   The bengals have had to select a very high % of top picks on these types of players over the last 5 years.

The Steelers WRs are 3rd,4th and 6th round picks
Their TE is a 5th rounder
And their RBs are a 2nd rounder, 3rd rounder and a scrap heap journeyman

(07-21-2017, 11:52 AM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: This has nothing to do with expectations of all #1 and 2 rnd picks to be stars

Few are.

It has more to deal with investing such a high % of your top picks on skill players

There are many other needs on a football field.   The bengals have had to select a very high % of top picks on these types of players over the last 5 years.

The Steelers WRs are 3rd,4th and 6th round picks
Their TE is a 5th rounder
And their RBs are a 2nd rounder, 3rd rounder and a scrap heap journeyman

(07-21-2017, 02:24 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I would agree that the Bengals spend too many picks on skill position offensive players, but I disagree that it's because Dalton sucks. It's because the Bengals avoid free agency and trades. Pick me out a handful of good QBs, and I guarantee I can find you a very good mix of draft picks and FA/trade acquisitions. 

Btw, your logic with the Steelers is flawed or biased. 

"The Steelers WRs are 3rd,4th and 6th round picks" - The 6th round pick was Antonio Brown, who they just gave a huge contract. If Ben were able to do more on his own and can get it done with scrub 6th rounders, why not invest that money elsewhere? Also, if you count guys like Sanu (3rd rounder) and Marvin Jones (5th rounder) then why can't we count Martavis Bryant and Sammie Coates?

"Their TE is a 5th rounder" - Jesse James was a 2nd rounder. There is no 5th round TE on their roster.

"And their RBs are a 2nd rounder, 3rd rounder and a scrap heap journeyman" - Knile Davis is on his 3rd team. Bit of a stretch to call him a journeyman. They have a 2nd rounder (that panned out in a major way) and a pair of 3rd round picks if you count Davis. Now is that really that much different than a trio of 2nd rounders? Plus, is it worth considering that maybe we keep taking 2nd round RB's because they're not panning out? If LeVeon Bell was a turd, I doubt the Steelers would've just stopped trying to find a RB for Ben.

----------------------

Honestly though...are we REALLY comparing Dalton's weapons to Ben's? Obviously Dalton can only Pray that Mixon turns out as good as Bell. Hopefully Ross will be as productive as Bryant. Dalton has to "hope" while Ben already know what he has. Maybe that's why we keep taking skill position players. That, and ours have become free agents and walked for big contracts elsewhere. Ben hasn't had that problem lately. Yet. The Steelers have kept their linemen and we'll see who the Steelers draft when/if Bell and Bryant leave.

(07-21-2017, 03:22 PM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: With all of these picks the bengals have had to expend on skill

Dalton remains a bottom half tierd QB by nearly every measurable ranking I've seen to date.

He is limited. He's about a 16-20 ranked QB and needs perfect execution for online and his skill players to succeed.

(07-21-2017, 06:39 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Not sure what your reading but it is wrong but I guess the stuff your sniffing for AJ is making him great... 

(07-21-2017, 08:26 PM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: What does AJM have to do with Andy being a bottom 50% QB?

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/242915396/nfl-quarterback-rankings-2017

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/nfl-quarterback-rankings

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr/_/stats/expanded

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/2017-nfl-quarterback-power-rankings-post-draft-edition-051417

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000817355/article/qb-index-how-do-top-100-qbs-of-2017-stack-up

LOLOLO