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+--- Thread: Tank for Jackson? (/thread-12381.html)
RE: Tank for Jackson? - Pat5775 - 09-11-2017
Anyway, the only way I see this team getting a new QB is if Marvin is truly done after this season. If he is, whoever replaces him may want to roll with a QB other than Dalton. We'll see, but I don't see the Marvin Lewis regime cutting Dalton loose anytime soon
RE: Tank for Jackson? - Daddy-O - 09-11-2017
(09-11-2017, 01:07 PM)Trademark Wrote: If things continue to look bleak should we just tank the season for Lamar Jackson?
We need an NFL style QB not a college QB.
RE: Tank for Jackson? - Au165 - 09-11-2017
Anyone else think it is funny we just had a QB sacked 5 times and hurried at least another 5 times, and people rather than wanting to draft a tackle are calling for another QB?
RE: Tank for Jackson? - Hammerstripes - 09-11-2017
(09-11-2017, 03:22 PM)Au165 Wrote: Anyone else think it is funny we just had a QB sacked 5 times and hurried at least another 5 times, and people rather than wanting to draft a tackle are calling for another QB?
Well, I think there's a combination of things going on.
1. We've seen what Dalton is as a QB. He's pretty good if he's got a great roster around him.
2. The bust rate of a top 10 tackle is very high lately.
RE: Tank for Jackson? - Yojimbo - 09-11-2017
(09-11-2017, 01:46 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Tank for Trey Adams
"During the summer leading up to fall camp, scouting sources with NFL teams who had gone ahead to work the 2018 class during the spring told me that they thought Adams had the potential to be an elite prospect. Sources say that they think that Adams could emerge as one of the top talents for the 2018 NFL Draft and had him in the top three of all players entering the season. They compared Adams' size and athleticism to Taylor Lewan coming out of Michigan, and also said that Adams has good technique to go with his impressive skill set."
"As a run blocker, Adams can create a push at the point of attack. He is a true bull who overwhelms defenders at the point of attack, and he is able to knock defenders back to open holes in their gaps. Adams' speed and athletic ability can be seen as he is quick to hit blocks on the perimeter and the second level."
That would help more than a QB.
OT is where I'd be looking too if we end up top 10 again. My choice is Orlando Brown Jr. though. The size, the athleticism, the competition and the genes make me think he'll be a 10 year pro-bowl starter at RT.
RE: Tank for Jackson? - Au165 - 09-11-2017
(09-11-2017, 03:25 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Well, I think there's a combination of things going on.
1. We've seen what Dalton is as a QB. He's pretty good if he's got a great roster around him.
2. The bust rate of a top 10 tackle is very high lately.
So if he is pretty good with a great roster....why wouldn't you go and get him a line? As for the bust rate, have you seen the bust rate for 1st round QB's lately? I am not saying keep Dalton, hell maybe consider an option in FA, but drafting a QB at the top without a line is asking to ruin a career.
RE: Tank for Jackson? - Gamma Ray Tan - 09-11-2017
God No! Draft should be: Tackle, Center, Tackle,
RE: Tank for Jackson? - Gamma Ray Tan - 09-11-2017
However, a new coach may want "his guy" at QB.... Would definitely be interesting to see how they play that.
RE: Tank for Jackson? - PhilHos - 09-11-2017
I'm sorry, if anyone thinks the solution to the team's woes is a new QB, you're about the biggest idiot to walk the earth. Despite your thoughts on Dalton, the fact is that our biggest issue is with the OLine. With the way the OL played last year into this year, you're going to need a prime Roethlisberger in order to get into the playoffs. As far as I know, there's no one the Bengals could get that would fit the bill.
So, what you're saying is, let's get rid of a guy who has shown to be, at least, an average QB (in reality an above average, but that's a different argument) for a rookie who is going to have to play behind this same OL. A great OL can make a bad QB seem mediocre, so let's work on the OL before even thinking of replacing Dalton.
RE: Tank for Jackson? - Bengalbug - 09-11-2017
(09-11-2017, 03:31 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: However, a new coach may want "his guy" at QB.... Would definitely be interesting to see how they play that.
Tag mccarron and let dalton and him battle it out in camp , then trade the other for anything of value.. He can also upgrade an OL through draft and FA...So there is a way to have your cake and eat it too.
But who are we kidding... the amazing game clock manager and guru of halftime adjustments will most likely continue to lead this team.
RE: Tank for Jackson? - PhilHos - 09-11-2017
(09-11-2017, 03:31 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: However, a new coach may want "his guy" at QB.... Would definitely be interesting to see how they play that.
If the coach that replaces Marvin wants to get a new QB before fixing the OL, then you just know that Brown hired the wrong HC.
RE: Tank for Jackson? - Hammerstripes - 09-11-2017
(09-11-2017, 03:27 PM)Au165 Wrote: So if he is pretty good with a great roster....why wouldn't you go and get him a line? As for the bust rate, have you seen the bust rate for 1st round QB's lately? I am not saying keep Dalton, hell maybe consider an option in FA, but drafting a QB at the top without a line is asking to ruin a career.
For starters, I'm just commenting on this inside the context of this thread. I have no problem keeping Dalton. The question that someone posed was why people are clamoring for a QB instead of a LT.
My reasoning for letting him go is that it's pretty obvious that he can't get us past the 1st round of the playoffs. He's had several chances and he's even had a home game where the team was a favorite. You don't draft in the top 3 very often, so you have to get a guy that is worth the pick. It SEEMS that there are 3 franchise type guys this year.
Now, I'd go about it the same way we did with Palmer. Draft him, sit him, and start adding guys. We took Steinbach in the 2nd round that year, we need to take a top tier OG or C.
One of the things that I will say is that you can deal with pressure on the edges. Leave a RB or TE in to block, but it is much more difficult to have pressure up the middle the way we are getting it. We need to close the gaping hole in the middle of the line.
RE: Tank for Jackson? - PhilHos - 09-11-2017
(09-11-2017, 03:45 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: My reasoning for letting him go is that it's pretty obvious that he can't get us past the 1st round of the playoffs.
While this is a valied argument, you can't overlook the fact that no quarterback under Marvin Lewis was able to get past the 1st round.
RE: Tank for Jackson? - Hammerstripes - 09-11-2017
(09-11-2017, 03:34 PM)PhilHos Wrote: If the coach that replaces Marvin wants to get a new QB before fixing the OL, then you just know that Brown hired the wrong HC.
You can easily do both. The question becomes what can you find easier - a top tier QB that's a free agent or a top tier draft pick?
I can't think of a free agent QB that I would have wanted to bring in this year, while there were several guys that could have helped this line:
Whitworth, Mangold, Albert, Zuttah.....
I think you can get away with another team's castoff on the line, but it's hard to find a suitable QB for a long term solution in free agency.
RE: Tank for Jackson? - Hammerstripes - 09-11-2017
(09-11-2017, 03:46 PM)PhilHos Wrote: While this is a valied argument, you can't overlook the fact that no quarterback under Marvin Lewis was able to get past the 1st round.
Very true, although I strongly believe we win the Pittsburgh game if Palmer doesn't go down.
The years with Palmer we had a good, not great roster. I feel like we've had a great roster with Dalton and he still couldn't get over the hump - hence the difference.
RE: Tank for Jackson? - Murdock2420 - 09-11-2017
(09-11-2017, 03:46 PM)PhilHos Wrote: While this is a valied argument, you can't overlook the fact that no quarterback under Marvin Lewis was able to get past the 1st round.
I believe Mike Zimmer could have won a playoff game with the talent Marvin had here in 13,14 and 15.
The line is the issue, no matter how many rules change, the game remains the same at it's core. You have to be able to protect your QB and get to theirs. This game will always be won and lost in the trenches.
RE: Tank for Jackson? - PhilHos - 09-11-2017
(09-11-2017, 03:47 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: You can easily do both. The question becomes what can you find easier - a top tier QB that's a free agent or a top tier draft pick?
I don't think it's that easy. You're not going to find a free agent QB that's demonstrably better than Dalton, so if you want "your" QB, it's going to have to be through the draft. And, yes, if you can fix the OL through free agency, that frees you up to get a new QB, but it certainly isn't going to be easy.
(09-11-2017, 03:48 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Very true, although I strongly believe we win the Pittsburgh game if Palmer doesn't go down.
The years with Palmer we had a good, not great roster. I feel like we've had a great roster with Dalton and he still couldn't get over the hump - hence the difference.
I agree that the Palmer knee injury game would've been a win for Cincy had Palmer stayed in all game. With Dalton, I think you can only really blame 2 of the playoff losses on him (3 if you blame him for getting injured before the Pittsburgh Meltdown game). The others were more a fault of the rest of the team being the letdown.
(09-11-2017, 03:53 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I believe Mike Zimmer could have won a playoff game with the talent Marvin had here in 13,14 and 15.
The line is the issue, no matter how many rules change, the game remains the same at it's core. You have to be able to protect your QB and get to theirs. This game will always be won and lost in the trenches.
I agree. Had we ketp Zim, we would've been in the Super Bowl in 15, IMO and definitely been contenders the other years, as well.
RE: Tank for Jackson? - Au165 - 09-11-2017
Replacing the QB is the red herring argument of this team. You can point to playoff struggles, but that isn't the immediate issue with this team. The immediate issue for the last two seasons is no QB can stay upright. With that said taking a QB with a top 10 pick is a mistake. You put rookies in positions to succeed and any rookie dealing with this O line will end up like David Carr. You build the line over the next year then move on from Andy the year after when the line can keep a QB upright.
RE: Tank for Jackson? - John Shaft - 09-11-2017
That's a clown question bro.
RE: Tank for Jackson? - Tiger Teeth - 09-11-2017
(09-11-2017, 03:22 PM)Au165 Wrote: Anyone else think it is funny we just had a QB sacked 5 times and hurried at least another 5 times, and people rather than wanting to draft a tackle are calling for another QB?
Yes. I think it's funny as hell. Dalton has been good enough through his career. They give him a shitty line, and now we need a new QB?