(11-09-2017, 07:14 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Who the F**K is Joe Goodberry? Was he a QB guru at some stage in his life, or even a scout?

(11-10-2017, 03:58 AM)Wyche Wrote: From what I can gather(quick google hit)....he's a Bengals FAN from Buffalo that writes blogs, does amateur film breakdown on YouTube, and fancies himself a draft expert.  Yeah.....  

(11-10-2017, 04:03 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: No he's on twitter ,but do you guys break down film? I doubt you even understand the game . Unless you would see big flaws in our qb holding us back. Yeah like always it's just not all on him. Which I stated in the post ,Coaching and management controls the rest of the roster . But Andy Dalton is part of the problem. All of you will find out in the long run. Dalton will never win big for us  .watch and see and really I can't take much more of this bafoon team.ill do the Bengals just like I did the reds years ago when griffey left . Hardly get into it and find other interests. Why involve my life heavy in bafoonery.

(11-10-2017, 04:11 AM)Wyche Wrote: Oooohhh Twitter.  So, having played 10 years, coached 4, and taken coaching philosophy classes under a 2 time FCS National Champion coach.....if I got on Twitter, would I be an expert?  Ppffftttttt. 

If you're worried about buffoonery....I'm not sure why you're a fan of the Mike Brown Bengals.  It's been this way for 27 years.....but yeah....quarterback.  I see his flaws....I did on his scouting report.  I read where he struggles with constant pressure, so that tells me to keep a good line in front of him and he'll be ok....several seasons of good football from him prove it.  Too bad our front office can't read, I guess.

(11-10-2017, 04:21 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Football isnt some rocket science people make it out to be. I always hear people saying well who are You? You ain't out there playing won't you get out there. And other bs and only listen to the coaches words like gospel . Yeah our owners and coach are bafoons, I still don't like Daltons play and inaccuracy ,I'm just not a fan of him as a player and don't see him being the qb we need,actually I never have except he surprised me in 2015. I got off his case then but he still managed to get himself hurt. It's always something with this team. Now for the last two years we have not seen that Andy, which he was more accurate that year and showed some passion. I think it was a fluke year. Blake bortles is having a top qb type of year this year ,that should tell you something. Everyone thinks flacco sucks ,but I remember times he was good.not so much now he's a different qb now.

(11-10-2017, 04:26 AM)Wyche Wrote: BTW....I read where your boy wanted Corey Davis and was "open to John Ross".  I guess he'd fit right in with the "buffoons" in our FO.....looking at shiny trinket skill players when your line can't hold long enough to let a play develop.

I don't think a lot of peoole realize just how important solid line play is, and how it effects the entire offense and scheme.....especially when it's this bad.  I've been around football for 36 years....this is easily top 3 or 4 worst units I've ever seen, pee wee to pros. 

(11-10-2017, 04:35 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: My boy? Lol I'm lost on that one but yeah Corey Davis is the receiver I wanted ,and at the last couple weeks I was for Ross. Here's the thing,I know the o line isn't good. But it's the coaches and owners job to try new things with the o line if it wasn't working,of course Marvin and Mike are too complacent, and don't replace one guy. Our two worst o lineman are the same two culprits from last year ,Cedric and Bodine. Last year the o line improved a little bit when Cedric went out and rex bulkhead started to get carries . It got everyone optimistic about next year. That's the two main culprits right there,and why not scout some tackle out ,there has to be a guy out there somewhere.thats kind of why I wasn't worried about the o line because a real coach would tinker with the o line not ours. Like I also stated there's teams that have 3 udfa o lineman and are doing good with it. Your qb also have to make the right protections or change the calls. Your ocand hc need to put their guys in a spot to succeed always like new England does.

(11-10-2017, 04:33 AM)Wyche Wrote: According to his stats....he is accurate.  Numbers don't lie.  You're criticizing things that are easily debunked with a quick look at pro football reference.  Narratives won't cut it.  Just because you're not a fan of someone, doesn't mean you can just hurl something against the wall and hope it sticks.....which seems to be the case with this Goodberry cat.  He doesn't like Dalton either.  Dude is reviewing Madden, tells me pretty much all I nedd to know....lol.  In all seriousness, he does a decent job breaking down film, but really no better than some of the guys I've seen on here. Also, without being in the huddle, and knowing everyone's responsibility, audible options, etc....it's all just subjective when we get to critiquing individual play anyway.

You're right....it isn't rocket science, build the damn line and watch even below average skill players excel.  Look at Dallas.  Blake Bortles is playing behind a good line for the first time in his career, and he has Leonard Fournette.  You're missing the forest for the trees. Football is the ultimate team sport, and there is a lot of cause and effect in this game.  

(11-10-2017, 04:41 AM)Wyche Wrote: Center makes a lot of those protection calls....and coincidentally, center is the worst player on the line here, minus Ogbuehi.  Go back and read through some of the threads here during the offseason concerning o line.  It's a damn shame a bunch of amateurs on a message board can see things playing out better than a "NFL front office".  Bodine should have been replaced two years ago....yet, here he still is.  His line coach has been here since Dave friggin Shula was HC....yet, here he still is.  This organization is rampant with nepotism in the FO, and favoritism on the staff.  

(11-10-2017, 04:49 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Once again you are have been involved in football for so long but you can't see the inaccuracy over the years? Jeez man . I'll try to give my evaluation about Dalton of watching him for 7 years .

Dalton is not a fast runner but he did a lot of it at tcu you can tell by his highlight video coming in. But hes a pocket passer without the things to really make you a pocket passer. The accuracy is always inconsistent to bad, he has improved it before but it always goes bad again. He's kind of short for a pocket passer . His footwork in the pocket isn't good or his mechanics,this is a area aj McCarron has him beat and accuracy,he doesn't climb the pocket at all. Some times he runs out of the pocket when he don't have too. He surrenders to sacks and looks down . Sometimes he looks scared to take a hit while throwing ( has gotten better at that last two games) .doesn't have a big arm or live arm. He's Mr nice guy most the time and shows no leadership.he pretty much has a blank face like he's a robot out there.oh yeah has trouble scanning the field for his other options because he don't like hanging in the pocket.

Positives he does have velocity on his short to intermediate throws but that isn't what a big arm is like a wentz or early Palmer probably because of his size . He's better in the fast throw get the ball out quick, predetermined throws game. When you ask him to be a true pocket passer that's where he struggles. Oh yeah he can run for a first down sometimes.

(11-10-2017, 04:49 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Once again you are have been involved in football for so long but you can't see the inaccuracy over the years? Jeez man . I'll try to give my evaluation about Dalton of watching him for 7 years .

Dalton is not a fast runner but he did a lot of it at tcu you can tell by his highlight video coming in. But hes a pocket passer without the things to really make you a pocket passer. The accuracy is always inconsistent to bad, he has improved it before but it always goes bad again. He's kind of short for a pocket passer . His footwork in the pocket isn't good or his mechanics,this is a area aj McCarron has him beat and accuracy,he doesn't climb the pocket at all. Some times he runs out of the pocket when he don't have too. He surrenders to sacks and looks down . Sometimes he looks scared to take a hit while throwing ( has gotten better at that last two games) .doesn't have a big arm or live arm. He's Mr nice guy most the time and shows no leadership.he pretty much has a blank face like he's a robot out there.oh yeah has trouble scanning the field for his other options because he don't like hanging in the pocket.

Positives he does have velocity on his short to intermediate throws but that isn't what a big arm is like a wentz or early Palmer probably because of his size . He's better in the fast throw get the ball out quick, predetermined throws game. When you ask him to be a true pocket passer that's where he struggles. Oh yeah he can run for a first down sometimes.

Quote:Dalton does not get rattled in the pocket and can use his mobility to escape if the pocket breaks down. He has a calm about himself in the pocket and is not afraid to stand in until the last minute and take a big hit.

Quote:Dalton has the strength to throw with zip and get the ball between defenders. As a West Coast Offense passer, he would excel due to his ability to fit the ball in tight spaces on short and intermediate routes. Despite not having the strongest arm, he does show nice touch on deep balls.

Quote:  Has a quick release, a strong arm and is an accurate passer, especially on the run.

Quote:Does not have a big-time, vertical arm. Average athlete. Makes occasional bone-headed decisions. Heaves the deep ball and forces receivers to make adjustments. Does not drive the deep out.

(11-10-2017, 06:15 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: *Googles Football key words to use to defend weak argument*

Did you not read a single thing I posted!? I don't feel like you did, really at all. I didn't expect you to after your following posts attacked other's Football IQ when you've presented inability to debate an argument, as well as counter any argument without resorting to name calling or referring to adults as 'butt hurt'.


Lets break your argument down, one by one...and watch it fall apart...QUICKLY!


1. Dalton is not a fast runner - 4.87 40 time, beats AJM. Cone drills 6.93 beats AJM. Shuttle drill? 4.27. Beats AJM. Dalton might not be a 'fast' runner, but he is a better, quicker athlete than AJM. The same guy who made a Collegiate career with what was regarded as the best offensive line in College...

2. Dalton is a pocket passer without any of the things that make him a pocket passer - What makes a pocket passer a good pocket passer, in your book? Quick release? Dalton, under a great line, had a top 3 release (especially see that 2015 MVP year where the ball was getting out in under 2.4 seconds). I'd say ability to read and scan to make decisions, IE 2015 NFL year, last year AND MULTIPLE NFL draft analysis. Arm strength? Dalton was actually praised for his arm strength, but it was considered, much like AJM as a weakness...So, your point is completely mute here.

3. He's Short For A Pocket Passer - Half an inch shorter than AJM but makes up for it in the half an inch in arm length.

4. Sometimes He Looks Scared To Take Hits - Most of these are ENTIRELY subjective off your opinion, one that has been destroyed time and time again...that being said, Dalton has shown the ability to stand in the pocket and take shots his ENTIRE career.

Draft Profile on Dalton in the pocket:



5. Doesn't have a big or 'live' arm -

Draft Profile for Dalton, again


Now for AJM




I'm sorry to say, but your evaluation is just....well, wrong. It looks like you're looking at the worse games, dialing up what a few drunk beer buddies say and are spreading it to the pages. The fact is, if Dalton was as BAD as you said he was...he wouldn't continue to put up the numbers he does. Sure, we are struggling as of late, and I won't take anything from that...but literally, so is everyone.



But we can continue this back and forth. As far as I'm concerned...AJM was extremely underwhelming on a GREAT playoff team where Dalton was a Top 3 MVP candidate...

(11-10-2017, 04:21 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Football isnt some rocket science people make it out to be. I always hear people saying well who are You? You ain't out there playing won't you get out there. And other bs and only listen to the coaches words like gospel . Yeah our owners and coach are bafoons, I still don't like Daltons play and inaccuracy ,I'm just not a fan of him as a player and don't see him being the qb we need,actually I never have except he surprised me in 2015. I got off his case then but he still managed to get himself hurt. It's always something with this team. Now for the last two years we have not seen that Andy, which he was more accurate that year and showed some passion. I think it was a fluke year. Blake bortles is having a top qb type of year this year ,that should tell you something. Everyone thinks flacco sucks ,but I remember times he was good.not so much now he's a different qb now.

(11-10-2017, 05:00 AM)Wyche Wrote: You hit on his problem area....footwork in the pocket.  I don't think the guy is scared to take a hit though....I think he's just trying to force things at times, and in too big of a hurry behind these guys.  If he was scared to take a hit, he wouldn't have kept getting up during the Indy game.  He had gotten better in this area after work with Tom House (which is telling to me....his QB coach couldn't help him, but we promoted that dumbass to OC....but I digress), and a couple years with Hue under his belt. Now....after 2 OCs in 2 years, and an implosion of the line....we're seeing a regression.  His internal clock is back to being rushed like it was his first year and a half or so.  Rushed throws in a timing offense make for inaccurate throws at times.  Cause and effect..... 

I'm sorry, but as for overall accuracy, the numbers paint a different picture.  Even on the deep ball. Look them up for yourself.  Hell, look at Shake and Blake's sig....it has his career numbers right there.

Dalton is what he is.  With a good line that he has confidence in, he's anywhere from 9 to 13 in this league. Without it, he's 13-16 in this league.  Knowing this, I don't see how you let your line go to shit.  We knew Palmer was a statue in the pocket, and let his line go to shit.  It seems Son of Paul can't learn from history....or he's just too cheap to do anything about it.  

As much shit as I give Marvin....it's even hard to totally blame him, given the shit show amateur hour in the FO.

(11-10-2017, 08:41 AM)Synric Wrote: There's a hell of alot more involved than the average fan knows and Joe Gooderry is an average fan. This is coming from someone that watched and played for years thought he knew something then went to a few clinics. 

Football takes years of education and experience.

(PS Military won't pay for coaching clinics as they are not "formal education")




He gets sloppy with his release point too which leads to tipped balls.

(11-09-2017, 03:59 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: Listen, Andy Dalton is not a perfect QB. Andy is not elite. He is well above average, but he's not a top tier QB. He needs to be kept clean. His career has proven that when given time, he can be a top 11-15 QB though. Maybe even a 9-10 QB, but that's going to be it.

One of the biggest problems that has hurt his production is our lack of a running game. With the exception of 2014, the Bengals are usually around 19-20 in rushing yards and 22nd or worst in yards per carry. Sure, other QBs deal with a lackluster rushing attack, but those teams usually try to offset that with quick, short throws. Not the Bengals. Since he has been here, Marvin Lewis has always said he wants to be a run first team because of playing in the AFCN. So regardless of OC or OLine play, we continue to try and pound the ball for negative or no gains and put ourselves in obvious passing situations. Telegraphing your offense is bad coaching and puts yourself in a tough spot. Insisting on forcing the run game when it's not working is also not helpful.

You can call me all the names you want and say I'm making all of the excuses you want, but facts are facts. Dalton does not benefit from a good ground game, he does not benefit from good coaching, and he's currently not benefiting from his OLine's play. A lot of these issues come from coaching. I'd like to see what Dalton can do with improved coaching and improved OLine play. If he's still not getting it done, maybe it is time to move on from him. I just feel he should get the same benefit of the doubt that the other players get. If we think improved coaching would help them, why wouldn't it help Dalton.

Yes, Dalton makes mistakes but he's held to a much different standard by Bengals fans. He should've made that throw to Green against the Jags, but missing it doesn't make him bad at the deep ball. The guy is always at or near the top of the league as a deep ball passer. No, he doesn't have a big arm but it's strong enough to make the throws. He's also a pretty accurate QB overall. Besides his rookie year, he consistently puts up a completion percentage of low to mid 60s. You're attacking parts of his game that he's actually pretty good at. If you want to talk about how he needs better pocket awareness or footwork, those are valid.

The reason you say things like "Andy Army" (so dumb) will rush to defend him is because you attack his strengths. He's plenty good enough to help this team win. The one constant is the head coach who has a horrible postseason and prime time record regardless of his QBs. The issue is bigger than Dalton. Again, he has weaknesses and areas he needs to improve. If you want to talk about those and say you feel those are reasons we should move on, that's a legitimate discussion. But saying he's inaccurate and throws a poor deep ball, those are simply not true and why people will call you on it.

(11-10-2017, 06:29 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: I rather not debate with you at all. You are out there .just for the simple fact you think Dalton has a live arm lol please bye

(11-10-2017, 10:07 AM)Steve Wrote: 3-4 years ago A.D. was having problems keeping his deep passes in bounds.....he supposedly worked on this in the off season & supposedly corrected this....
not so....
he still throws too many deep passes out of bounds....
SMH.....
I like A.D. but don't love him....imo, if your an NFL QB & you throw 1/3 of your deep passes out of bounds that QB should be benched...PERIOD....BENCH HIM..!!!!!!

I do not understand how we can draft OT Ced in rd #1 & OT Fisher in rd #2 & both of them suck....
while other teams can get undrafted guys & they do just fine....
HOW CAN THIS HAPPEN...?
 if the Bengals cant fix their O-line this team will always suck.....I now hope we lose all remaining games this year....so we get a better draft pick....& someone helps out our war room & shows them who to pick in the next draft.....
here they pick WR Ross, who imo, is nothing more than a "toy"....can't even play.....
what a waste....seems they would draft quality O-line players but our war room can't even do that....refuse to draft a quality Center....just love a weak 4th rd pick in Bodine.....gets pushed backwards on every play...so what....who cares....?
until this team learns how to draft.....this team will continue to suck....
if your entire O-line is garbage....your entire team is garbage.....
we've turned into the Browns....
& to pour salt into the wound...now we get to sit back & watch shitsburgh win another SB.....
thanks a lot .....