(01-20-2018, 12:28 AM)Captain Obvious Wrote: Don't get me started on Tomlin. With one of the most talented teams on paper and he can't seem to win when it counts pisses me off more than anything. Pittsburgh has more talent on the field than New England but the Patriots have a much smarter coach and that's the difference. Tomlin can't seem to beat the teams he's supposed to. The Steelers win in spite of Tomlin. He's the biggest joke in the playoffs. 

(01-20-2018, 07:15 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: Hmm, maybe it is because of Tomlin that the steeler's developed their players to become talent or All-Pros.

7 out of 8 of their All-Pro's were strictly on Tomlin's watch.

The guy never had a losing season in his life. Even Belicheck had losing seasons [eg. Cleveland Browns]

And when you say he can't win when it counts, tell that crap to Arizona in the Superbowl or the Jets/Ravens during the AFC Championship.

Didn't Cowher have a freaking 15-1 team lose in the AFC Championship, and a team that was heavily favored against the Chargers in the AFC championship and a team that got beaten badly by Dallas in the Superbowl.

Stop whining and appreciate you have one of the best coach's of all time.



  

(01-20-2018, 10:49 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Tomlin isn't close to being one of the best coaches of all time. He just has a HOF QB.

(01-20-2018, 11:24 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: So did Cowher.

By the way without Brady Belicheat has a losing record. 

With the Browns, Belicheat had one winning season out of five years.

With the Patriots, Belicheat was 5-11 the year before Brady started playing.

I know that Belicheat went 11-5 the year that Brady was hurt, however they were not good enough to make the playoffs that year.

So in essence, without Brady, Belicheat went one out of seven years not making the playoffs and one out of six years below .500.

And if you say that Tomlin just has a HOF QB in Big Ben.

Everyone on the planet would say that Brady >>>> Big Ben or Belicheat just has one of the best QB's of all time.

A QB that has NEVER missed the playoffs and NEVER had a losing record.

Just stating facts. 
   

(01-20-2018, 11:28 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Belichick has had such great success because he has a HOF QB too, but he's a much better HC. 

Belichick is not know for making questionable to stupid decisions in game planning. Tomlin is.

Both owe their success to their QB, but BB is a much better coach. There's no real comparison there.

(01-20-2018, 12:23 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: It's easy to view the recent success of Belichick AND Brady and say that Belichick is a genius. But facts are facts as in marvin lewis going 0-7 in the playoffs. Belichick went 36-44 .450 with the Browns and 5-11 the first year without Brady. You can arguably say he is .500 with the Patriots without Brady since they went 11-5 the year Brady was injured. But in cumulative years he is still 1 out of 7 years without Brady and making the playoffs. Ironically, the year he did make the playoffs with the Browns they beat the Patriots in the wild card round and lost to the Steelers in the divisional round.  

The jury is out on Tomlin, he can develop his players and they can become All-Pro's as the Steelers have 8 this year and 7 out of the 8 are exclusively the work of Tomlin, where it can be said that both Cower and Tomlin had Big Ben as their respected All-Pro. But as you stated when Big Ben retires we will see where Tomlin lands in the standings. 

(01-20-2018, 12:45 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: It's almost mind boggling that you would talk BB down while talking Tomlin up. In Cleveland, Belichick had the the Browns on the rise before Modell stepped in and moved the team. Without Brady, Belichick has done pretty well. Belichick has had 1 losing season with the Pats; his first. He's had 12+ wins in 8 consecutive seasons and he's had 10+ wins in 15 seasons. Oh yeah, almost forgot this...5 SB rings in 7 tries. 

He's KNOWN for taking "meh" guys from other teams and building championship teams with them. He's KNOWN for adapting his game plan to fit opponents week to week. 

There's no argument and there's no jury still out. Belichick is head and shoulders better than Tomlin and every other coach out there. 

As far as Tomlin developing guys to All Pro. That's not such a hard thing to do when they already have the talent when they arrive. I will tell you where he does have a problem, beside his coaching abilities on the field. He has a real problem with discipline on his team. Another thing you NEVER hear about from a Pats team. 

P.S. I'm assuming you mean Pro Bowlers. The Steelers don't have 8 All Pros this year.

(01-20-2018, 01:30 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: Yes. You are right in regards to Pro Bowlers.

I am not talking BB down and Tomlin up, I am giving facts. My opinion is we will see what Tomlin does without Big Ben. The facts are Tomlin does not have a losing season in his career. BB has 5 losing seasons in his career. Fact is Brady does not have a losing year in his career. Fact is Brady has NEVER missed the playoffs. Fact is BB is 1 in 7 years in making the playoffs without Brady.

As for as the Browns on the rise when Modell moved them in 1996, they were 5-11 and the Bengals were 7-9. I guess the Bengals were rising faster  

All this you mentioned was largely WITH Brady, as you are proving my point with your statement.

" He's had 12+ wins in 8 consecutive seasons and he's had 10+ wins in 15 seasons. Oh yeah, almost forgot this...5 SB rings in 7 tries. "

Brady's years with the Patriots are impossible to measure he is phenomenon. 



 


    

(01-20-2018, 01:49 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: If you can't see that the Browns were improving under Belichick, i can't make you. 
If you can't see that Belichick is a much better coach (brady or not) than Tomlin, i can't make you. 
If you can't see that Tomlin is more a rah-rah speech 'em up coach than he is a technician, i can't make you. 

Take away both QBs from their coaches and there's no question Belichick has more success with what's next.

(01-20-2018, 02:18 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: Belichick was not improving the Browns. He had only one winning season with them out of five years. And his last year they were 5-11 below the bengals who were 7-9.

(Brady AND Belichick) >>>> (Tomlin AND Big Ben), without a question.

(Other QB's AND Belichick) vs (Tomlin AND Other QB's), the jury is out.

There is nothing wrong with a Rah-rah speech 'em up coach. Every year a bunch of technician coach's in all sports have losing records and get fired. Every year.

Tomlin has 11 years of rah-rah speech'em up coach in his resume without a losing record.

If the issue is Tomlin is not a good technician coach then that is a fair argument, but as an overall coach who can motivate his players and develop then we have an argument.

I wish my favorite football team had a coach who was a rah-rah speech'em up coach with a winning record that Tomlin has.  
 

(01-20-2018, 02:18 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: Belichick was not improving the Browns. He had only one winning season with them out of five years. And his last year they were 5-11 below the bengals who were 7-9.

(01-20-2018, 11:24 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: By the way without Brady Belicheat has a losing record. 

Just stating facts. 
   

(01-20-2018, 02:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: 6-10
7-9 
7-9
11-5 (won a playoff game)
5-11 started off the year 3-1. lost to the oilers 37-10 on Nov 5th. The next day, Modell announced they were moving after months of speculation. They finished the year 1-7 but they managed to beat those 7-9 Bengals twice. 

I'd be pretty hard pressed to find anyone other than you or a Browns hater that would dispute he was improving the Browns prior to 1995.

(01-20-2018, 03:47 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote:   He went 11-5 without Brady for a whole season, and went 3-1 without him in his suspension and probably would have gone 4-0 if Grop hadn't gotten hurt!!

Just the facts ma'am!

Here's the clincher.  If you were wanting to model your franchise after the must successful one since 2003, who would it be? OR would you rather continue to do what you are doing and expect different results?? (Insanity)

Tomlin, like Gruden, won a SB off the previous coaches players, has had the best talent in the league SINCE then and has never made it back to a SB!

Just the facts ma'ma ... just the facts!

(01-20-2018, 12:39 AM)bengalguy71 Wrote: But why is he 'off limits' for media criticism like Colin Cowherd has stated CO?  it's not because he's black because the media beats Marvin Lewis to death, which, to tell the truth, isn't his fault that Mike Brown continues to keep him on.

(01-20-2018, 04:18 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: I would have a coach[Joe Gibbs] who won 3 SB's with 3 different QB's and none of them were HOF's.

In 1982 it was Joe Theismann at QB, in 1987 it was Doug Williams., and in 1991 it was Mark Rypien. Just the facts ma'ma .. just the facts.

If the issue is Cowher/Tomlin only won because they had HOF QB's, then Joe Gibbs was a genius, who won in multiple years without a HOF QB.

It's insanity that you keep to neglect the Brady factor. 

Steelers also went 3-1 the year Big Ben was suspended.  Just the facts ma'ma .. just the facts.

Exclude, one of the best QB's in NFL history, then spout Belichick's record. Just the facts ma'ma .. just the facts.

(01-20-2018, 04:08 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: I am NOT saying that Tomlin is a better coach then Belichick. Not saying that at all. 

Back to the beginning. 
You stated that Tomlin had a HOF QB. True
I replied, so did Cowher. True
Then I said by the way BB also has a HOF QB. True
Then I did some research and realized BB does NOT have a stellar career without Brady, in fact he has a losing record without Brady.

If the issue is Cowher/Tomlin only won because they had HOF QB's, then Joe Gibbs was a genius, who won in multiple years[3] without a HOF QB.

Tomlin may go 0-16 without Big Ben. The jury is still out. In fact, one thing we both can agree to. We can't wait for Big Ben to retire and more importantly, we both want the Steelers to feel a 0-16 record.
   

(01-20-2018, 04:48 PM)Captain Obvious Wrote:  I guarantee BB would have like 7 by now.

(01-20-2018, 04:36 PM)Captain Obvious Wrote: I have no idea why he's off limits. That's the one problem I had with Dan Rooney. When a guy isn't performing up to par you look for a guy that can get the job done. If I was Dan I would have went after a more aggressive coach who wouldn't have put up with these players running their mouths making stupid predictions and wouldn't accept mediocrity. Mike's too busy trying to be friends with the players instead of doing his job.