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+--- Thread: Football as we know it is Over (/thread-15372.html)
RE: Football as we know it is Over - SunsetBengal - 03-27-2018
(03-27-2018, 08:21 PM)jj22 Wrote: It's not the crown of your helmet. It's your helmet at all. That's the big difference. Before it was face up, see what you hit. That's illegal now too. It's a significant change that forces arm and shoulder tackles (which means more misses and whiffs). You can't lead with your helmet. Means you cant bend down. Think about how hard that will be.
It's a major change, as stated in the article. It's not just taking out a couple bad plays.
I don't like it. I think it'll be too hard to officiate fairly. Especially if offensive players get low.
I really don't see that working out. It's a natural human reflex to tuck the chin, when heading into a collision. I'd say on enforcement, it's going to have more to do with looking up. There is no way to physically go into a tackle, with the torso heading toward the opponent, and not have the head involved.
They're going to have to show me some freaky robot videos, in order to convince me otherwise.
RE: Football as we know it is Over - jj22 - 03-27-2018
I'm just pointing out it's a significant change. They talked about how coaches don't like it because it means they now have to change who they dress with the fear of evictions it will lead to (on total access). We theoretically could lose both safety's given how Iloka and Williams hit. They said there will be a lot of meeting about this in the coming months because of the difficulty of officiating it (you thought the catch rule was hard).
I'm for rules stopping helmet to helmet hits etc, but this rule forces you to take your head/helmet out of the equation completely, and that's hard to avoid. That's significant.
How many players lower their head while tackling naturally? Are taught to see what they hit (tackle with the face mask up).
And what about aiming the helmet on the ball to cause a fumble? That's illegal now too. It's significant.
Maybe you guys aren't thinking it through. Taking the head/helmet out of the game sounds good. And the intention is good. But it's not going to be easy. And it does change the game.
RE: Football as we know it is Over - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 03-27-2018
(03-27-2018, 09:14 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I may be in the minority, but I don't watch football to see guys get maimed. I watch for strategy. Big plays (offense and defense).
Plus, isn't this good for Burfict? Leading with the head was getting him concussed.
Yep needed to take this out of his game anyways, tons of players need to.
(03-27-2018, 09:25 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: So you are upset they made significant changes to the game in hopes to promote better tackling?? Or do you actually think tackling with your helmet is good??
Either way I am not following you here. Football as we knew it is gone... and should be with all the info we have on head injuries/concussions now. Player safety should come before the desires of the fanbase imo and it's far overdue they addressed it.
Ask bernard if he likes this new change.
I think he is upset that there might be even more flags on the field than we already see, which i do understand.
But if they can take this out of the game and have less concussions and not as many flags seems to be a great change.
RE: Football as we know it is Over - jj22 - 03-27-2018
(03-27-2018, 09:41 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yep needed to take this out of his game anyways, tons of players need to.
I think he is upset that there might be even more flags on the field than we already see, which i do understand.
But if they can take this out of the game and have less concussions and not as many flags seems to be a great change.
Yes, if I'm against anything it's not sure how it will be officiated. Other than that, just saying it's a significant rule change.
RE: Football as we know it is Over - CKwi88 - 03-27-2018
Football is changing. It will be met with the too familiar "z0mg football is dead!!1!" cries and all that nonsense, but this is a smart rule change.
Try and tell Shazier or Pollack otherwise.
RE: Football as we know it is Over - Bengalsrob - 03-27-2018
(03-27-2018, 06:57 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Anyone find if odd they come out with these new "head hunting" rules when there is the Steelers involved? I could have sworn there was a rule already in place when Shazier hit Gio with crown of his helmet. Something about ball carriers outside the tackle box or something like that.
Supposedly....once Gio caught the ball and turned upfield he became a runner and it was OK to hit him in the head? I hope the new rule changes this, runners are people too! And, what if..Brady or Rodgers ran out in the flat on a trick play; made the cut upfield and got blasted? I think the hits to the head like that in the open field need to go, but not sure if they have.
RE: Football as we know it is Over - BengalChris - 03-27-2018
(03-27-2018, 06:02 PM)jj22 Wrote: Well there goes football.
This already sounds like a cluster to officiate.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/03/27/nfl-passes-rule-against-lowering-head-to-initiate-contact-with-helmet/
Adam SchefterVerified account @AdamSchefter
The hit that Steelers’ LB Ryan Shazier delivered to Bengals’ WR Josh Malone last season would be illegal in NFL this season.
We definitely need to find Burficts replacement. There's no reason for him to even play again.
My only question. Were they trying to protect players, or were they just mad a beloved Steeler got hurt trying to injure a Bengal?
Yeah, was wondering the same thing. Shazier injured himself. Reminded me of the hit put on Bernard a few years ago, which wasn't flagged then even though it was clearly spearing, which has been against the rules for a long time.
Shazier had a history of doing this but league didn't care until Shazier put himself in the hospital.
RE: Football as we know it is Over - TKUHL - 03-28-2018
What I don't get is, I truly don't think players well most players think I'm gonna lower my helmet and light this sucker up with the top of my head. I would guess most of the crown penalties are guys trying to put a shoulder into the player or on the ball. It's not his fault the other player moves, lowers their head too or whatever. Are players supposed to run straight up to a player like they have a board up their ass and just hug them to the ground. Oh that's right they may slam them down too hard or gawd forbid land on them. So can a RB not lower his head at the goal line? Can a QB not lower his head performing a QB sneak?
I get how the OP feels, I also get that the league is catching to much flack about concussions but something has to give when you see a player flagged for unintentionally hitting another player illegally because the receiver lowered his head etc. not sure if there is an easy fix for this and I think it will eventually be the demise of the NFL.
RE: Football as we know it is Over - Bilbo Saggins - 03-28-2018
A lot of Steelers have a history of spearing - which is already illegal but wasn't being enforced evenly for some reason. Beyond cracking down on spearing more, this rule may cancel out a lot of the "hats on the ball" fumbles(like Ross's) - I'm not sure if that's the intent or not, but if there is a sudden dip in fumbles we'll have an idea as to why.
RE: Football as we know it is Over - Go Cards - 03-28-2018
Am fine with the rule but my problem is the exact same thing others have pointed out already.
It will be enforced with prejudice and suspect it will not be called fairly for every team.
RE: Football as we know it is Over - thegimp - 03-28-2018
We have been teaching rugby style tackling at the middle school and high school level for a few years now. It takes the head completely out of tackling. Pete Carroll popularized it and there have been a few studies that have shown positive effects on a players health. It will take a while to gain traction at the collegiate and pro level, mainly because it takes away the highlight real hit.
RE: Football as we know it is Over - Thundercloud - 03-28-2018
If this is done right, what it may do is SAVE football.
RE: Football as we know it is Over - PDub80 - 03-28-2018
(03-27-2018, 08:21 PM)jj22 Wrote: It's not the crown of your helmet. It's your helmet at all. That's the big difference. Before it was face up, see what you hit. That's illegal now too. It's a significant change that forces arm and shoulder tackles (which means more misses and whiffs). You can't lead with your helmet. Means you cant bend down. Think about how hard that will be.
It's a major change, as stated in the article. It's not just taking out a couple bad plays.
I don't like it. I think it'll be too hard to officiate fairly. Especially if offensive players get low.
I think the most important part is the “to initiate contact”. You can lean down, just not lean down and battering ram into someone. If a RB has his head down runn8ng through the hole, or diving, or flinches, he’s not “initiating contact” with his helmet, right? He’s just running and not actively smashing his helmet into players as a FIRST point of contact.
Reverse that, though... The RB is running upright and sees a defender incoming to tackle him.... Instead of a stiff arm, shoulder, etc, he lowers his head to hit the defender in the chest to knock him back.
Defenders or Olinemen, same deal. If you initiate or touch with the arms, etc first and THEN helmet = all good. Just can’t go all rhino and use your head FIRST.
RE: Football as we know it is Over - bengalfan74 - 03-28-2018
I think there's very little doubt football is a dying sport. How long that death will take is the only question ?
My H.S. football team dresses half of the players it did in my day. The Band is a shadow of it's self back in the day ! Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 3/4 of the students in the top three grades were on the field either on the team, cheerleaders, band, flag corps, majorettes. Today you could take the band home in a minivan.
The middle class moms of America are less and less behind the game every year. Pee wee football numbers have been in decline for years and I've little doubt those numbers will continue to decline at even greater rates with all the concussion stuff going on now.
It's dying at the beginning, at the bottom. The top has no support if the base crumbles and it is.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-football-concussions-youth-kass-met-0906-20170905-column.html
https://nypost.com/2017/09/03/why-america-is-falling-out-of-love-with-football/
RE: Football as we know it is Over - Tomkat - 03-28-2018
(03-27-2018, 09:35 PM)jj22 Wrote: How many players lower their head while tackling naturally? Are taught to see what they hit (tackle with the face mask up).
If they tackle with the fask mask UP, then they didn't really LOWER their head now, did they. (They only lowered their torso)
If they tackle "head up," they WON'T be penalized. I think you're reading too much into it.
RE: Football as we know it is Over - Beaker - 03-28-2018
(03-27-2018, 06:40 PM)Big Boss Wrote: There go Burfict and Mitchell's careers. And Shazier's too, if he ever sees the field again.
Shazier will see the field again...from the bleachers.
There has been a movement for some years now to take away leading with the head. Good for player safety, and good for reducing concussions. Just going to take an adjustment in the way tackling is taught from the NFL all the way back to peewee football.
RE: Football as we know it is Over - Wyche'sWarrior - 03-28-2018
(03-28-2018, 01:43 AM)thegimp Wrote: We have been teaching rugby style tackling at the middle school and high school level for a few years now. It takes the head completely out of tackling. Pete Carroll popularized it and there have been a few studies that have shown positive effects on a players health. It will take a while to gain traction at the collegiate and pro level, mainly because it takes away the highlight real hit.
This.
We weren't taught rugby style tackling.....but we were taught heads up tackling in pee wee. Our coach taught us to keep the head up, follow the numbers on the jersey (torso can't juke you), break down, come across the chest, try to put the facemask on the ball, and hit, wrap, lift the ball carrier, and drive him into the turf. (obviously, you can't ALWAYS execute proper form)
Admittedly, I've been away from the game both playing and a tad of little league coaching for years now, but as I watch....I can't figure out why we got away from tackling like that. How many times do we see guys going for the kill shot.....lowering the head, and throwing forearms to the ball carrier instead of wrapping him up, only to see the offensive player bounce off and break free?
If done properly, I could actually see it improving the tackling.
RE: Football as we know it is Over - Go Cards - 03-28-2018
(03-28-2018, 09:10 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I think there's very little doubt football is a dying sport. How long that death will take is the only question ?
My H.S. football team dresses half of the players it did in my day. The Band is a shadow of it's self back in the day ! Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 3/4 of the students in the top three grades were on the field either on the team, cheerleaders, band, flag corps, majorettes. Today you could take the band home in a minivan.
The middle class moms of America are less and less behind the game every year. Pee wee football numbers have been in decline for years and I've little doubt those numbers will continue to decline at even greater rates with all the concussion stuff going on now.
It's dying at the beginning, at the bottom. The top has no support if the base crumbles and it is.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-football-concussions-youth-kass-met-0906-20170905-column.html
https://nypost.com/2017/09/03/why-america-is-falling-out-of-love-with-football/
See this as well but still think it will be a lengthy process per the billions of dollars it generates at all upper levels.
Luckily I am old enough that believe it will last throughout my lifetime.
There are many of moms at UofL football games still.
RE: Football as we know it is Over - Go Cards - 03-28-2018
(03-28-2018, 10:47 AM)Wyche Wrote: This.
We weren't taught rugby style tackling.....but we were taught heads up tackling in pee wee. Our coach taught us to keep the head up, follow the numbers on the jersey (torso can't juke you), break down, come across the chest, try to put the facemask on the ball, and hit, wrap, lift the ball carrier, and drive him into the turf. (obviously, you can't ALWAYS execute proper form)
Admittedly, I've been away from the game both playing and a tad of little league coaching for years now, but as I watch....I can't figure out why we got away from tackling like that. How many times do we see guys going for the kill shot.....lowering the head, and throwing forearms to the ball carrier instead of wrapping him up, only to see the offensive player bounce off and break free?
If done properly, I could actually see it improving the tackling.
see what you hit is what coaches were preaching in my day as well.
But sadly the roar of the crowd and the big paydays change some players techniques when they get older it appears.
RE: Football as we know it is Over - grampahol - 03-28-2018
(03-28-2018, 01:43 AM)thegimp Wrote: We have been teaching rugby style tackling at the middle school and high school level for a few years now. It takes the head completely out of tackling. Pete Carroll popularized it and there have been a few studies that have shown positive effects on a players health. It will take a while to gain traction at the collegiate and pro level, mainly because it takes away the highlight real hit.
Maybe they should just eliminate helmets and pads entirely. I hate to say it, but I enjoy watching Rugby more than football. I remember one season the Bengals weren't going anywhere and there was a local channel carrying the rugby championships.. That was great..no commercials every 15 seconds, non-stop rugby ...I was rooting for S Africa , but NZ mopped the floor with them . The problem with rugby is there's not really enough time for bathroom breaks.. lol