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+--- Thread: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... (/thread-15876.html)
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - bengals67 - 05-03-2018
(05-03-2018, 01:26 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: According to Lap, it was basically a tossup as to how the two players graded out with the Bengals...so being able to land either of them, and greatly upgrading (potentially) an area of weakness that has plagued this team for years, seems like a really good day at the office,
Staying at 21 and taking whichever one was available - or whichever they preferred if both were there - seemed like the smartest play, IMO.
:andy: :andy: :andy:
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - ochocincos - 05-03-2018
(05-03-2018, 11:30 AM)Au165 Wrote: ....or they really were graded so close it didn't matter to them which they got.
They could have been. We won't really ever know for sure.
(05-03-2018, 11:45 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: You are also under valueing Walton here....
Definitely could be. I just didn't see RB to be anywhere close to a need before Rd 5 at the earliest. Sometimes it helps not to have too crowded of a stable and there are still some decent vets that one would think would sign for pretty cheap given they are still available in FA in case a big injury to Mixon/Gio did occur.
(05-03-2018, 12:28 PM)TKUHL Wrote: May never know which was the better choice since Det is using Ragnow as a Guard. Not sure why Det didn't just pick a Guard like Hernandez knowing that's the position they were going with. But I guess with a first round Guard might as well get a versatile guy like Ragnow that can play multiple positions.
DET has Ragnow listed at C on their site roster page. The other C is Wesley Johnson. I too would have gone Wynn or Hernandez if the desire really was for G, but I think they wanted a better C than Wesley Johnson. Ragnow gives them that versatility for C and OG just in case, as you said.
(05-03-2018, 12:37 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I voted yes - but with a catch. It really depends on what kind of grades they had on both. For all we know, Price may have had a higher grade. If they were both rated as first rounders and they were 20-25 on the board, then I wouldn't give up the pick to get Ragnow.
I'm actually glad the Lions took Ragnow ahead of us because I truly think the Bengals had Price rated higher.
True, Price could have been the target all along. However, I think Ragnow was rated higher. The Bengals don't really do well with smokescreens and show their hand easily. Nearly everyone expected them to go Ragnow if he had been there.
My reasoning for trading up a couple spots would have been because I do think Ragnow offers better pass protection than Price while still should be very good in the run game, has longer reach to keep DL at bay, and is already recovered from his injury whereas Price still has that (slight) uncertainty of being ready for TC. Because of those reasons, Ragnow was more like 10 picks higher on my board personally.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - Neon Icon - 05-03-2018
You allz need to get over the Ragnow vs Price talk. The best lineman aren't always the 1st picked.
Plus, being from OSU, therez a good chance Price sticks around here.
To the wait until the 2nd Round for Price crowds...the 1st Round pick gets us a 5th year of contract. Given how the Bengalz don't like to sign Centers, dat be huge!
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - StLucieBengal - 05-03-2018
(05-03-2018, 11:30 AM)Au165 Wrote: ....or they really were graded so close it didn't matter to them which they got.
This.
If they were trading up it would have been for a mcglinchy or James.
I thought I read where Detroit was putting ragnow at guard anyway.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - ochocincos - 05-03-2018
(05-03-2018, 01:41 PM)Neon Icon Wrote: You allz need to get over the Ragnow vs Price talk. The best lineman aren't always the 1st picked.
Plus, being from OSU, therez a good chance Price sticks around here.
To the wait until the 2nd Round for Price crowds...the 1st Round pick gets us a 5th year of contract. Given how the Bengalz don't like to sign Centers, dat be huge!
I see people throw that out but I don't think everyone realizes how it works....
The 5th year option for a player picked from 11-32 is an average of the top 3rd-25th highest paid players at that position.
For C, a 5th year option would come out to be $5.83 mill, which would be just above what the 16th highest paid C (JC Tretter) makes.
With C salaries continually on the rise, that 5th year option is just going to continue to grow, so if Mike Brown has such a concern with paying C a decent amount, that 5th year option could still be too pricey for his liking.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 05-03-2018
(05-03-2018, 01:26 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: According to Lap, it was basically a tossup as to how the two players graded out with the Bengals...so being able to land either of them, and greatly upgrading (potentially) an area of weakness that has plagued this team for years, seems like a really good day at the office,
Staying at 21 and taking whichever one was available - or whichever they preferred if both were there - seemed like the smartest play, IMO.
Exactly, just happy we didn't do the thing some were proposing and wait for one of the top 3 to fall to us at 46.
That would of royally screwed us if we did that.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - BonnieBengal - 05-03-2018
(05-03-2018, 10:31 AM)ochocincos Wrote: This article on Cincy Jungle seems to indicate the Bengals should have traded up past DET to get Ragnow if he really was their guy, but teams knew they likely wouldn't.
https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/5/3/17311958/nfl-execs-insiders-critical-bengals-drafting-billy-price-round-1
If Ragnow was really the target for the Bengals at 21 (which most believe), should the Bengals have considered giving up a pick (or picks) to move ahead of DET? It likely would have only cost a 4th rounder to trade up to 19/20.
I personally vote yes, especially when the 4th rounder resulted in "just" another RB.
Give up a 4th rounder just to move up one spot? Remember, Geno Atkins was a fourth rounder. And I like Price. He's a highly rated center who wanted to be a Bengal. That is rare.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - 3wt - 05-03-2018
(05-03-2018, 12:03 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Ragnow is not better than Price. People, stop the lunacy.... be happy we got the best center in the draft.
I mean even if he is (and I think he is) Price is a really good center and will represent a quantum improvement for the Bengals interior. I have no complaint with the pick, do not feel we should have traded up and the more I find out about our draft the happier I am with it.
Yard barker gave us a D+ for our draft. I totally disagree.
It's Koolaide season, and I feel like I don't need any sugar.
If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - BenZoo2 - 05-03-2018
(05-03-2018, 01:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I see people throw that out but I don't think everyone realizes how it works....
The 5th year option for a player picked from 11-32 is an average of the top 3rd-25th highest paid players at that position.
For C, a 5th year option would come out to be $5.83 mill, which would be just above what the 16th highest paid C (JC Tretter) makes.
With C salaries continually on the rise, that 5th year option is just going to continue to grow, so if Mike Brown has such a concern with paying C a decent amount, that 5th year option could still be too pricey for his liking.
Hopefully we don’t have to worry about ebenezer’s liking in 5 years as he won’t be making any more decisions regarding the team
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - WeezyBengal - 05-03-2018
(05-03-2018, 12:41 PM)Sled21 Wrote: You said it yourself, some had Price rated higher than Ragnow, and vice versa. What that means is they are both right there together. The lunacy is talking about giving up draft picks to get one over the other.....
I misunderstood your post. I thought you were saying that it would have been lunacy to take Ragnow at the spot in the Bengals were in if he wasnt off the board already.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - Shake n Blake - 05-03-2018
Am I the only one who liked Price better? I read that he was the #1 Center prior to the injury, and the injury will not stop him from suiting up week one. The scouting report says he's "nastier" than Ragnow and also the better run blocker. He won the Rimington award, not Ragnow. He started 55 straight games, which shows durability.
From everything I've read, Price sounds like the better Center...especially if we're planning to be a dominant run team.
Even if you don't agree, it's clear that they were 1A/1B as the top Centers this year. I just preferred Price. I want a dominant run game for the first time since Dillon.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - Go Cards - 05-03-2018
Went with Price is fine
and at this point what else can I say ?
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - psychdoctor - 05-03-2018
I think the front office had both centers rated highly with Daniels a distant third. We may never know who is the better center between Ragnow and Price because Lions will play Ragnow at guard. I agree, Lions should have traded down and grabbed Hernandez.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - Socal Bengals fan - 05-03-2018
I like the Price pick. it was obvious the Bengals needed help at Center. but I just watched tape on Ragnow damn hes good. never allowed a sack or pressure. damn hes a stud. for such a big guy he can really move
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - Neon Icon - 05-03-2018
(05-03-2018, 01:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I see people throw that out but I don't think everyone realizes how it works....
The 5th year option for a player picked from 11-32 is an average of the top 3rd-25th highest paid players at that position.
For C, a 5th year option would come out to be $5.83 mill, which would be just above what the 16th highest paid C (JC Tretter) makes.
With C salaries continually on the rise, that 5th year option is just going to continue to grow, so if Mike Brown has such a concern with paying C a decent amount, that 5th year option could still be too pricey for his liking.
Its possible boy...but if he turns into a good playa then it's a good value.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - JungleRock85 - 05-03-2018
I should probably learn to read the full poll question and not just how it appears from the homepage...I saw the "If Ragnow was really the target" and thought that was the question and voted yes because I think they had him slightly above Price based on what Lapham has said. However, my true answer to the poll would be no that I would not have traded Ragnow for Price and Walton....not much difference between the Centers and giving up that 4th rounder would be too costly for that move.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - BengalChris - 05-03-2018
(05-03-2018, 10:31 AM)ochocincos Wrote: This article on Cincy Jungle seems to indicate the Bengals should have traded up past DET to get Ragnow if he really was their guy, but teams knew they likely wouldn't.
https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/5/3/17311958/nfl-execs-insiders-critical-bengals-drafting-billy-price-round-1
If Ragnow was really the target for the Bengals at 21 (which most believe), should the Bengals have considered giving up a pick (or picks) to move ahead of DET? It likely would have only cost a 4th rounder to trade up to 19/20.
I personally vote yes, especially when the 4th rounder resulted in "just" another RB.
I voted no mostly because I don't see Ragnow as ahead of Price. In March Ragnow was not even a consideration in the first round but price was pretty much in most 1st round mocks and Lindy's had Price going to Detroit with the #20 pick.
I don't think it was a surprise to the Bengals that Detroit drafted a Center ahead of them. The team seemed to telegraph that they were going to take a Center with the 21st pick. So the Bengals basically had to know that they were going to get whoever Detroit didn't select. If they had a much of a preference they could have moved up easily.
As far as the 4th round pick being used on an injured RB, well that's another story. It was the pick I liked the least of all 11 picks.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - ochocincos - 05-03-2018
(05-03-2018, 03:56 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I voted no mostly because I don't see Ragnow as ahead of Price. In March Ragnow was not even a consideration in the first round but price was pretty much in most 1st round mocks and Lindy's had Price going to Detroit with the #20 pick.
I don't think it was a surprise to the Bengals that Detroit drafted a Center ahead of them. The team seemed to telegraph that they were going to take a Center with the 21st pick. So the Bengals basically had to know that they were going to get whoever Detroit didn't select. If they had a much of a preference they could have moved up easily.
As far as the 4th round pick being used on an injured RB, well that's another story. It was the pick I liked the least of all 11 picks.
I think the reason for why Ragnow wasn't even a consideration in the first round in March was because he had suffered his season-ending ankle injury on Oct 21 and was unable to perform at the Senior Bowl or Combine because of it. His Pro Day was on March 26, and he showed even better in the drills than people expected.
Quote:Ragnow set personal bests in the vertical jump (33.5 inches) and broad jump (9 feet, 7 inches), which would have ranked second among offensive linemen at the combine. His 40-yard dash time of 4.98 would have been fifth, while his 27 bench press reps would have tied for eighth.https://247sports.com/college/arkansas/Article/Pro-Day-Report-Arkansas-Razorbacks-center-Frank-Ragnow-safety-Josh-Liddell-shine-116718349
The only number he was disappointed in was his bench press because he had been doing much better than that during his training.
“I’ve done 36, so I kind of choked there,” Ragnow said. “I stopped breathing. I forgot how to breathe, so not good technique.”
So essentially, he was the "forgotten" C. And when he finally was able to perform at his Pro Day, he opened some eyes that perhaps he's more athletic and better than people originally were thinking.
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - sandwedge - 05-03-2018
(05-03-2018, 02:39 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Am I the only one who liked Price better? I read that he was the #1 Center prior to the injury, and the injury will not stop him from suiting up week one. The scouting report says he's "nastier" than Ragnow and also the better run blocker. He won the Rimington award, not Ragnow. He started 55 straight games, which shows durability.
From everything I've read, Price sounds like the better Center...especially if we're planning to be a dominant run team.
Even if you don't agree, it's clear that they were 1A/1B as the top Centers this year. I just preferred Price. I want a dominant run game for the first time since Dillon.
No, your not. I've been a big Price fan for a couple of years. His freshman year he pancaked a dude and then as the guy was getting up, Billy just leveled him again!! There will be learning pains, but can't wait to see him anchoring the middle!
RE: If Ragnow was really the target at 21... - ochocincos - 05-03-2018
I'm seeing some people not following the purpose of the thread, as they are saying they think Price is better than Ragnow so they are glad the Bengals didn't go after Ragnow.
However, that was not the question...
This was not really meant to be a debate of Ragnow vs Price but rather should the Bengals change their drafting philosophy of "We'll take whoever is available at our pick!" vs "Let's trade up to ensure we get our guy!"