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+--- Thread: Tier 3 QB (/thread-16468.html)
RE: Tier 3 QB - BigPapaKain - 07-25-2018
God damn Rodgers is overrated.
RE: Tier 3 QB - SHRacerX - 07-25-2018
(07-24-2018, 06:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Tier 1:
T1. Aaron Rodgers
T1. Tom Brady
3. Drew Brees
4. Ben Roethlisberger
Tier 2:
5. Matt Ryan
6. Russell Wilson
7. Matthew Stafford
8. Philip Rivers
9. Carson Wentz
10. Andrew Luck
11. Cam Newton
12. Derek Carr
13. Jimmy Garoppolo
14. Deshaun Watson
Tier 3:
T15. Kirk Cousins
T15. Alex Smith
T17. Eli Manning
T17. Dak Prescott
19. Jared Goff
20. Jameis Winston
21. Marcus Mariota
22. Andy Dalton
I am not surprised by these rankings, and be prepared for these so-called "reference points" to be thrown out by nearly every talking head in the media for at least a year.
This list is supposed to be where the player is RIGHT NOW. Not where they have been. Not where they could be. But where they are RIGHT NOW. So, the mere fact that guys like Mariota and Winston are ranked ahead of Dalton is laughable. And Eli Manning? I guess when you win a couple Super Bowls they give you the slack for having awful seasons when the roster has suffered some injuries.
I guess the same excuse is used on Stafford and Luck. "Well, they just don't have the team around them" but when the same concept is thrown out about Dalton, it reads "he needs to be surrounded by elite talent".
I am not saying Dalton should be ranked ahead of them (Stafford, Luck) but being ranked #22 when Piggy is #4 is hilarious. Human nature says they are not basing it on now, or what they have most recently seen (Piggy's 5 INT game vs. Jax) but history. And Dalton's 2015 before injury seems to be gone with the wind.
These rankings are great fodder for guys (and gals) like us that want to debate, etc, but in the end they don't matter at all.
If the Bengals have an even mid-pack rushing attack in 2018-19, and the revamped offensive line gives Dalton a little time and an actual pocket, he will pick teams apart. I can't wait to see it.
RE: Tier 3 QB - SHRacerX - 07-25-2018
(07-24-2018, 07:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Should be top 5 this year with a decent O-line and a running game. Normal Dalton hate IMO.
Actually think that Trubisky is being overlooked, he has a real good arm and if some of his WR's can stay healthy he
might have a good year. AJM probably won't even start, he sure didn't look like a starter last Offseason. Think Allen
will be the starter by the time the season rolls around.
Hopefully the Pig finally starts to fall off, hate that guy and it pizzes me off him being in the top tier.
We need to beat the shit out of this guy this year.
My dream is on a Nationally Televised game that Burfict blindsides Piggy so hard that he (piggy) shits his pants and the evidence is shown by the cameras on those yellow pants.
Like Deadpool would say: "He should have worn the brown pants"
RE: Tier 3 QB - SHRacerX - 07-25-2018
(07-24-2018, 08:50 PM)Sweetness Wrote: Their T2 is a terrible list. Watson has played what, 7 games? Jimmy G even less. Carr had a good rookie season and was average in year 2. Luck hasn't done much in years. Cam was bad the last 2 years. Wentz has had 1 good year and 1 really bad. Wilson does way more for his team then Big Ben at this point in his career.
This is a great point. All QBs, especially the so-called rushing QB, need to demonstrate that they can win games after the league has a season of film on them. Defensive coaches aren't stupid and if they see a guy like Watson struggling on anything that goes to his left, they will match the defense accordingly.
Cam Newton is the only QB built to withstand the beating of a so-called rushing QB. Even he suffers from lack of accuracy and I am sure all the hits he takes can't help how his arm feels when airing it out.
Russell Wilson is one that is right where he belongs. He proved he could do it without the best defense in the league and without Beast Mode.
There are a lot of other QBs that haven't proven anything beyond a really good rookie season (and not a complete one at that).
Let's not forget Mr. Dalton won 9 games as a rookie without OTAs and with a roster that all the talking heads predicted wouldn't win a game.
RE: Tier 3 QB - SHRacerX - 07-25-2018
(07-24-2018, 09:34 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Eh, Seattle’s Oline was atrocious last year and they have him #6...
And he deserves to be there. He proved it without the best defense and without Beast Mode. What is Manning's excuse? And Luck? Stafford?
RE: Tier 3 QB - bengalfan74 - 07-25-2018
The list has a bunch o issues to me. Garoppolo at 13 after just a few starts ??? Wilson should be top tier. Just to name a couple. Dalton should be like 15/16 range.
RE: Tier 3 QB - Nicomo Cosca - 07-25-2018
(07-25-2018, 08:21 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: God damn Rodgers is overrated.
Umm...no.
RE: Tier 3 QB - Nicomo Cosca - 07-25-2018
(07-25-2018, 08:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: And he deserves to be there. He proved it without the best defense and without Beast Mode. What is Manning's excuse? And Luck? Stafford?
Wasn’t arguing Wilson shouldn’t be there. Quite the contrary. Was pointing out he had an awful Oline last year and still won 9 games. So you can’t put it ALL on a bad line wrt Dalton last couple years. He also needs to play better.
RE: Tier 3 QB - Go Cards - 07-25-2018
(07-24-2018, 10:10 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Don't forget center because that is an even bigger piece to help Dalton.
Agree but have yet to see Price against NFL players to say it for sure.
But has to be an upgrade.
RE: Tier 3 QB - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 07-25-2018
(07-24-2018, 11:55 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: I’m not sure I agree that dalton is better than Cam. Two totally different qbs and cams 2015 season was incredible.
Dalton was having an incredible 2015 season too before the injury.
(07-25-2018, 12:23 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: No way Dalton is better than Cam as far as pure skill goes.
Of course Cam is much more physically gifted, he is more physically gifted than about any QB ever.
He is just not as good of a QB as Dalton is in my opinion.
Cam makes many bone headed decisions and is not as accurate.
Dalton is great at Post route passing, one of the best.
Give Dalton a decent O-line and he will show why he is better than Cam.
RE: Tier 3 QB - PhilHos - 07-25-2018
(07-24-2018, 06:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Biggest talk in the NFL today is the just released QB tier ratings by ESPN, The list is compiled by 10 general managers, five head coaches, 10 coordinators, 10 senior personnel executives, five QB coaches and 10 others with job titles ranging from assistant coach to salary-cap manager to analytics director.
Our boy Andy comes in at #22, but hey; that's 10 spots higher than the QB we parted ways with.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/91gkze/espns_2018_nfl_qb_tiers_rankings/
Tier 1:
T1. Aaron Rodgers
T1. Tom Brady
3. Drew Brees
4. Ben Roethlisberger
Tier 2:
5. Matt Ryan
6. Russell Wilson
7. Matthew Stafford
8. Philip Rivers
9. Carson Wentz
10. Andrew Luck
11. Cam Newton
12. Derek Carr
13. Jimmy Garoppolo
14. Deshaun Watson
Tier 3:
T15. Kirk Cousins
T15. Alex Smith
T17. Eli Manning
T17. Dak Prescott
19. Jared Goff
20. Jameis Winston
21. Marcus Mariota
22. Andy Dalton
T23. Joe Flacco
T23. Case Keenum
25. Tyrod Taylor
26. Blake Bortles
27. Ryan Tannehill
28. Sam Bradford
Tier 4:
29. Mitchell Trubisky
30. Josh McCown
31. Patrick Mahomes
32. AJ McCarron
Luck, Newton, Garropolo (sp?), and Deshaun Watson should be behind Cousins, Smith, and Dalton. Other than that ... whatever.
RE: Tier 3 QB - XenoMorph - 07-25-2018
so a guy with 5 starts is a tier 2 QB? talk about a list of whos my favorite QBs over any actual substance.
RE: Tier 3 QB - sandwedge - 07-25-2018
(07-25-2018, 10:55 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Wasn’t arguing Wilson shouldn’t be there. Quite the contrary. Was pointing out he had an awful Oline last year and still won 9 games. So you can’t put it ALL on a bad line wrt Dalton last couple years. He also needs to play better.
Of the 2 QBs, Wilson is better at eluding the all out blitzes..
RE: Tier 3 QB - XenoMorph - 07-25-2018
(07-25-2018, 10:51 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Umm...no.
Rodgers is good but not at Tom brady level... Just count them rings... 1 vs 5... TB is clearly #1 overall.
RE: Tier 3 QB - sandwedge - 07-25-2018
(07-25-2018, 12:23 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: so a guy with 5 starts is a tier 2 QB? talk about a list of whos my favorite QBs over any actual substance.
That's exactly what this is.
RE: Tier 3 QB - sandwedge - 07-25-2018
(07-25-2018, 12:21 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Luck, Newton, Garropolo (sp?), and Deshaun Watson should be behind Cousins, Smith, and Dalton. Other than that ... whatever.
I think even Goff should be above Luck, Newton, Garrapollo, and Watson....I guess if your a media darling, that makes you a very good QB....
RE: Tier 3 QB - Nicomo Cosca - 07-25-2018
(07-25-2018, 12:24 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Rodgers is good but not at Tom brady level... Just count them rings... 1 vs 5... TB is clearly #1 overall.
Give Rodgers Darth Hoodie for 20 years and he probably has half a dozen rings.
RE: Tier 3 QB - BigPapaKain - 07-25-2018
(07-25-2018, 02:19 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Give Rodgers Darth Hoodie for 20 years and he probably has half a dozen rings.
Well he don't so he ain't on Brady's level. Period.
RE: Tier 3 QB - Wyche'sWarrior - 07-25-2018
(07-25-2018, 07:30 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: There are flaws in these ratings. Look at Flacco, jimmy G and Luck. All generously rated based on bias I’m sure. Although, at current status, Dalton would still be considered between 10-15. Their is tough competition on that list.
My thoughts as well.....although I get it if they are basing off last season.
RE: Tier 3 QB - Bengalbug - 07-25-2018
(07-25-2018, 02:58 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Well he don't so he ain't on Brady's level. Period.
Lol.... so in your opinion dilfer and Rodgers are on the same level?
Rodgers is the best pure QB in the league right now. He is not in the best situation, but that is seperate.