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+--- Thread: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. (/thread-16951.html)
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - Brimey - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 08:17 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Winner! Ding! Ding! Ding!
You nailed it! Teryl Austin dialed up a “man over” defense where Andrew Luck could have the slants and short out routes but the longer routes were taken away by the safeties over the top. It’s frustrating to watch because it looks like the defense is getting owned but in actual fact it turns touchdowns into field goals.
Out of curiosity, why would we call this type of defense? We have some great pass rushers .wouldn't we be better off forcing Luck to look deeper down field for options, which would give our pass rush the extra second to hit him?
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - N_B - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 09:35 PM)Brimey Wrote: Out of curiosity, why would we call this type of defense? We have some great pass rushers .wouldn't we be better off forcing Luck to look deeper down field for options, which would give our pass rush the extra second to hit him?
Agreed. The defensive game plan didn’t make a ton of sense. My guess is Austin expected us to get pressure with front 4, and when it didn’t happen (because of ineffectiveness Of our players and their gamplan), he didn’t have a backup plan.
The proof is on that last drive; that fumble saved us from probably the defensive gameplan losing us that game. they moved it at will and we couldn’t stop them, particularly on third down.
Remember, Austin was a mediocre coordinator in Detroit
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - Sweetness - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 08:17 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Winner! Ding! Ding! Ding!
You nailed it! Teryl Austin dialed up a “man over” defense where Andrew Luck could have the slants and short out routes but the longer routes were taken away by the safeties over the top. It’s frustrating to watch because it looks like the defense is getting owned but in actual fact it turns touchdowns into field goals.
A defense should never be happy about giving up 24 points in a game. If not for a very fortune fumble it could have been 31.
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - Fan_in_Kettering - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 09:48 PM)Sweetness Wrote: A defense should never be happy about giving up 24 points in a game. If not for a very fortune fumble it could have been 31.
I didn’t say I liked it. I just wanted to explain it.
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - Au165 - 09-09-2018
People acting as if it was any one defense that hurt us your off. We ran From what I remember seeing cover 2 man and zone, cover 1, cover 3, cover O, cover 6 once, and maybe a cover 9 but I’d have to re watch ,it didn’t matter we got picked apart. The reason this happened is because of Lucks ability to quickly process pre snap and adjust the play. When we were zone he had guys sitting in the soft spots and when we went man he abused matchups on the inside. This is more about how good Luck is that anything specifically wrong with the D. Sure we could have gotten more pressure, but to pretend like there was a magic play that could have stopped them is kind of comical.
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - Sweetness - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 09:55 PM)Au165 Wrote: People acting as if it was any one defense that hurt us your off. We ran From what I remember seeing cover 2 man and zone, cover 1, cover 3, cover O, cover 6 once, and maybe a cover 9 but I’d have to re watch ,it didn’t matter we got picked apart. The reason this happened is because of Lucks ability to quickly process pre snap and adjust the play. When we were zone he had guys sitting in the soft spots and when we went man he abused matchups on the inside. This is more about how good Luck is that anything specifically wrong with the D. Sure we could have gotten more pressure, but to pretend like there was a magic play that could have stopped them is kind of comical.
I agree. But there were alot of plays where he had at least 3 seconds to get the ball off, a number of them even longer then that. Any QB is going to pick you apart when they have that much time. That's unacceptable, especially given our "vaunted" Dline. The average pass play only takes 2.5 seconds.
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - Au165 - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 09:59 PM)Sweetness Wrote: I agree. But there were alot of plays where he had at least 3 seconds to get the ball off, a number of them even longer then that. Any QB is going to pick you apart when they have that much time. That's unacceptable, especially given our "vaunted" Dline. The average pass play only takes 2.5 seconds.
I agree, pass rush struggles more than expected. I was more referencing the people who acted as if the playcalling was some great travesty. We tried multiple coverages on all those third down conversions, it wasn’t making a difference. I would have liked to see more press man though and take some chances when Jackson was on TY.
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - Sweetness - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 10:06 PM)Au165 Wrote: I agree, pass rush struggles more than expected. I was more referencing the people who acted as if the playcalling was some great travesty. We tried multiple coverages on all those third down conversions, it wasn’t making a difference. I would have liked to see more press man though and take some chances when Jackson was on TY.
Ahh yeah; some people expect our D to always have the perfect play called and to allow 0 points a game. That said, the game called today by Austin was very underwhelming.
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - lone bengal - 09-09-2018
N_B Wrote:Agreed. The defensive game plan didn’t make a ton of sense. My guess is Austin expected us to get pressure with front 4, and when it didn’t happen (because of ineffectiveness Of our players and their gamplan), he didn’t have a backup plan.
The proof is on that last drive; that fumble saved us from probably the defensive gameplan losing us that game. they moved it at will and we couldn’t stop them, particularly on third down.
Remember, Austin was a mediocre coordinator in Detroit
My thing is whats the point of drafting 3 first round corners who are physical and excel in press man when you want to play this soft of defense. Also isn't Marvin supposed to be a defensive mastermind, isn't that the reason we hired him from the Ravens ? I wonder how much input Marvin has on the defensive game plans or what he does in general besides clapping. I was excited to see this defense because i thought we would be aggressive instead of giving up these easy passes.
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - corpjet - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 07:09 PM)impactplaya Wrote: William Jackson looked like he regressed a bit today. Hilton was able to get inside him clean today and make some clutch plays. he allowed a TD to.Hilton and a 1st down conversion.
AJ Green continues to have ball security issues. Elite WRs dont cough the ball up.
2 is 2 too many.
the defensive back 7 isnt on the same page. they were killed all day with crossing routes over and over. Ebrons TD looked a classic case of "you were supposed to cover him" kinda exchange..
Dennard looked a step.slow all day
The crossing routes working all day is more due to our weak LBers than secondary, our CBs are the least of our problems
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - Au165 - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 10:30 PM)corpjet Wrote: The crossing routes working all day is more due to our weak LBers than secondary, our CBs are the least of our problems
Often times with a crossing route there is a levels concept behind it causing One coverage to either drop into the second level or come down on the crosser. Drags specifically will kill zone coverage but the crux is that speed kills man so unless you got guys to run the drags in man your better in Zone.
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - Whatever - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 07:09 PM)impactplaya Wrote: William Jackson looked like he regressed a bit today. Hilton was able to get inside him clean today and make some clutch plays. he allowed a TD to.Hilton and a 1st down conversion.
AJ Green continues to have ball security issues. Elite WRs dont cough the ball up.
2 is 2 too many.
the defensive back 7 isnt on the same page. they were killed all day with crossing routes over and over. Ebrons TD looked a classic case of "you were supposed to cover him" kinda exchange..
Dennard looked a step.slow all day
Hilton had 5 catches for 46 yards and one TD. I'd say WJ3 did a pretty good job of holding him in check. TY Hilton is a legit #1 WR, not some scrub.
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - Joelist - 09-10-2018
The other approach to what the Colts were doing is to jam the receivers at the line.
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - Bengalitis - 09-10-2018
THe colts played exactly how we played last year after mid-season, score early take a lead, then make no/little adjustments at halftime and finish conservatively for the L.
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - samhain - 09-10-2018
(09-09-2018, 08:07 PM)snowy Wrote: You might not hear me say it again for a long time, but...Dre played very well today.
Damn right he did. Hope it continues.
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - Mike M (the other one) - 09-10-2018
We beat a team that has an exceptional QB, and will be a play off team if Luck stays healthy. It was also a road win, which are rarely pretty. Be glad we got this one out of the way now before Luck really finds his groove.
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - rfaulk34 - 09-10-2018
Hey, on behalf of the Cincinnati Bengals defense, i'd just like to apologize for them allowing even a single point to an overall #1 draft pick who only threw for the most yardage in his first 4 years in the NFL.
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - sonofstat - 09-10-2018
(09-09-2018, 07:09 PM)impactplaya Wrote: William Jackson looked like he regressed a bit today. Hilton was able to get inside him clean today and make some clutch plays. he allowed a TD to.Hilton and a 1st down conversion.
AJ Green continues to have ball security issues. Elite WRs dont cough the ball up.
2 is 2 too many.
the defensive back 7 isnt on the same page. they were killed all day with crossing routes over and over. Ebrons TD looked a classic case of "you were supposed to cover him" kinda exchange..
Dennard looked a step.slow all day
Honestly i really think that is not a fair assessment.
Saying WJIII regressed based on a couple of plays is over reacting. He will be a top tier CB by end of season - on the TD he made a mental mistake and got caught napping when they snapped it quickly and once he was a fraction late there's no way back on the quick inside route.
Dennard was rock solid. He's Leon Hall mk.2 and there's nothing wrong with that. I barely noticed him and thats a compliment. He'll never be flashy but he's fundamentally sound - with him, WJII and Drek thats a pretty good CB lineup (not that i'm a fan of Drek but he played well today)
I thought the DB7 was not too bad communication wise bearing in mind they ended up losing two starters (PB and SW) and fielding a rookie in Jessie Bates at FS. Yes, we were soft in the middle but that was less communication but more the scheme/lineup expecting Preston Brown or Hardy Nickerson trying to cover shifty RB or TE - that is simply matchup problem.
On the TD I would agree some miscommunication and I think that was on Evans rather than anyone else
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - SHRacerX - 09-10-2018
(09-09-2018, 07:09 PM)impactplaya Wrote: William Jackson looked like he regressed a bit today. Hilton was able to get inside him clean today and make some clutch plays. he allowed a TD to.Hilton and a 1st down conversion.
AJ Green continues to have ball security issues. Elite WRs dont cough the ball up.
2 is 2 too many.
the defensive back 7 isnt on the same page. they were killed all day with crossing routes over and over. Ebrons TD looked a classic case of "you were supposed to cover him" kinda exchange..
Dennard looked a step.slow all day
I hear ya, but our secondary actually held up very well given our relative lack of pass rush. The Colts threw the ball over 50 times.
Green will now have EVERY DB in the game swatting at the ball.
I was VERY encouraged by the play of Evans and Vigil yesterday. Even playing with Nickerson, who is an absolute liability in coverage, they were very solid against the run.
Dennard is our best player on defense. Completely disagree with your assessment. That SOB lays the wood when tackling (knocked Doyle out of the game). He is also our only slot CB. I love Dennard.
RE: My concerns WJack...Green...communication on D. - Au165 - 09-10-2018
(09-10-2018, 12:46 AM)Joelist Wrote: The other approach to what the Colts were doing is to jam the receivers at the line.
Kind of. A lot of the issues were coming off drags. If you press on zone your going to release them to the inside which means the drags they were running still end up being ran under the zone. If you go press in man (which I was hoping to see more of) you have LB's in space which was an issue when we did go for it.
People need to realize, of their top 5 receiving options two were TE's, two were HB's only one was a WR and it was Hilton with 5 receptions for 46 yards and a TD. When teams do that, especially on underneath routes, it is usually by design. It is a case of let them dink and dunk and wait for a mistake because there isn't a ton you can do about it. What this should also make people realize is the CBs were fine, it was more of a LB and Safety issue. Fej as great as his last play was got picked on a lot. I think if Williams and Burfict are playing we hold up better.