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RE: Officially not worried - thompson19osu - 09-23-2018

(09-23-2018, 10:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You have no idea if the ball was correctly placed; as you have no idea of the route design. Call me crazy but I assert the guy that directly caused  the 4 INTs is the guy that threw them. 

You should listen to Lapham’s take after the game. He says 4INTs but Dalton directly responsible for maybe 2 and I would agree. He also called out Ross specifically.

RE: Officially not worried - clevelandsdad - 09-23-2018

(09-23-2018, 10:35 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: What makes Joe Goodberry an expert? I'm not dogging him. I follow him on twitter. I read his posts here. He's never been a Dalton fan though and looks for reasons to bash him. Even when Dalton has good to great games he will dismantle him over incomplete passes. I know he posts here and I'm sure he'll see this. He has a very clear bias against Andy Dalton.

Regardless, people see what they want to see. Dalton threw 4 picks. No matter what happened, they're on his stat line. Even if you take away the 4 picks, people would've found something else to make the loss Dalton's fault. We would have seen video breakdown of every incomplete pass or open receiver he didn't see. While watching other games today, the announcers mentioned other QBs who didn't see wide open receivers for scores. That shit happens. Unfortunately we have a fan base the demands perfection of 1 player. No matter what that 1 player does, it will never be good enough. The proof of that is seeing how vehemently people defend a TE and LB who play half the time.

I see your point. Anybody can take any stat, play, trend, fill-in-the-blank and spin it to fit any story line or slant they so choose.

I respectfully disagree that Joe is a Dalton hater, I think he's actually one of the more objective analysts when it comes to Dalton's play. But alas, see my point above.

Regardless, I don't think Dalton played a terrible game. It was a mixed bag, as his game usually is. I place more of the blame on scheme, injuries, and not capitalizing on opportunities to get back in the game (whiffed fumble recovery, tipped rather than blocked punt). Those make the difference in tight games like today.

RE: Officially not worried - muskiesfan - 09-23-2018

(09-23-2018, 10:50 PM)clevelandsdad Wrote: I see your point. Anybody can take any stat, play, trend, fill-in-the-blank and spin it to fit any story line or slant they so choose.

I respectfully disagree that Joe is a Dalton hater, I think he's actually one of the more objective analysts when it comes to Dalton's play. But alas, see my point above.

Regardless, I don't think Dalton played a terrible game. It was a mixed bag, as his game usually is. I place more of the blame on scheme, injuries, and not capitalizing on opportunities to get back in the game (whiffed fumble recovery, tipped rather than blocked punt). Those make the difference in tight games like today.

I appreciate the level-headed response.

Again, I'm not trying to say anything bad about Joe. He spends a lot of time watching and breaking things down. He is intelligent and has a solid football IQ. As I said, I follow the guy and read a lot of what he says. I wouldn't say he's a Dalton hater as I have seen him give Andy credit on occasion. I have however seen him take Andy to task over incomplete passes on games where Andy played very well.

Andy certainly contributed to the loss today. Other factors did as well. Andy will always take the brunt of the blame because he's the QB and that's how it goes. He is a good QB though. I believe this team could win a title with him at QB. He's going to have bad days. Every QB does. The Bengals fan base is just exceptionally tough on Andy. Just from his play I think he deserves better. When you include the person he is and what he does for the city, it should be a no brainer.

RE: Officially not worried - bfine32 - 09-23-2018

(09-23-2018, 10:49 PM)thompson19osu Wrote: You should listen to Lapham’s take after the game. He says 4INTs but Dalton directly responsible for maybe 2 and I would agree. He also called out Ross specifically.

Which 2 weren't Dalton's fault according to Laps and you? 

RE: Officially not worried - Joelist - 09-23-2018

(09-23-2018, 10:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You have no idea if the ball was correctly placed; as you have no idea of the route design. Call me crazy but I assert the guy that directly caused  the 4 INTs is the guy that threw them. 

Well seeing as the announcers, players and coaches all got hot at Ross on that play I suspect the ball WAS correctly placed and Ross DID screw up. He literally stopped his route and stood there and didn't even look back to the LOS. Lapham in the postgame radio piece even called Ross out by name on 2 of the INTs and said Marvin ripped the receivers for bad route running among other things. 

RE: Officially not worried - thillan - 09-23-2018

I'm not too worried either.. I didn't expect us to whoop up on Carolina. Thought it would be a tough game.

I still think we can beat Atlanta, and a 1-1 record against two strong NFC teams is a nice start.

RE: Officially not worried - XsandOs - 09-23-2018

(09-23-2018, 10:16 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Am not panicking at all yet.

Just need to get healthy.

Agreed.

Reality check:
1) After 3 games, two of which were on the road, the record is 2-1.
2) Lost today by one score, and the #1 RB, #1LB, #1C were out, and the #1 WR went out midway through the game.
3) Defense still played well, despite two offensive turnovers which led to 14 points.

There is nothing wrong with the offensive or defensive philosophy here. Once all the pieces are back, then it's a matter of execution.

We lost to a Team today that schematically are a problem for us, at their place.

Defense is fine. First year of new scheme, so it will take time for everyone to adjust. By mid-year, when everyone is settled in, we will see the defense at its most efficient form.

RE: Officially not worried - bfine32 - 09-23-2018

(09-23-2018, 10:35 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: What makes Joe Goodberry an expert? I'm not dogging him. I follow him on twitter. I read his posts here. He's never been a Dalton fan though and looks for reasons to bash him. Even when Dalton has good to great games he will dismantle him over incomplete passes. I know he posts here and I'm sure he'll see this. He has a very clear bias against Andy Dalton.

Regardless, people see what they want to see. Dalton threw 4 picks. No matter what happened, they're on his stat line. Even if you take away the 4 picks, people would've found something else to make the loss Dalton's fault. We would have seen video breakdown of every incomplete pass or open receiver he didn't see. While watching other games today, the announcers mentioned other QBs who didn't see wide open receivers for scores. That shit happens. Unfortunately we have a fan base the demands perfection of 1 player. No matter what that 1 player does, it will never be good enough. The proof of that is seeing how vehemently people defend a TE and LB who play half the time.

This is BS.Hit the back arrow and see how many threads have been started blaming a QB that threw 4 INTs for the loss. The answer will be 0, but you will see numerous threads blaming other things. Andy had a couple great throws today, but just stop with the folks judge him unfairly narrative.  Any QB that throws 4 INTs must go to the front of the line on who to blame. 

RE: Officially not worried - bfine32 - 09-23-2018

(09-23-2018, 10:25 PM)clevelandsdad Wrote: Joe Goodberry, resident Bengals expert, begs otherwise


Was this one of the ones that wasn't Andy's fault? 

RE: Officially not worried - Tomkat - 09-23-2018

(09-23-2018, 11:06 PM)XsandOs Wrote: 2) Lost today by one score, and the #1 RB, #1LB, #1C were out, and the #1 WR went out midway through the game.
Since when can you score TEN POINTS on one play?

RE: Officially not worried - samhain - 09-23-2018

I ain't worried yet, either. The league isn't settled hierarchy-wise yet. Everybody's going to lose some games. This one hurts a bit, due to the fact that a few minor things could have sent things in the other direction (just a few inches on that Hubbard punt tip). They still had things moving on offense minus Mixon and Green in the 3rd, which gives hope. Either way, this was a tough team on the road and a QB in Newton who's physically unlike anyone basically ever to play in the league. That's not an easy factor to deal with. Love him or hate him, he's a hell of a player and much tougher than he gets credit for.

Next week will be tough, but coming home vs Miami will hopefully be the game where this team is complete again. I hope to god that Vontaze isn't fat and out of shape when he returns. He's a game changer and we need him and Brown badly. It's been shown during his other suspensions/injuries that this is a different defense when Burfict is on the field.

No matter hat, there's no denying that this team is a lot better than the 2017 version.

RE: Officially not worried - muskiesfan - 09-23-2018

(09-23-2018, 11:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is BS.Hit the back arrow and see how many threads have been started blaming a QB that threw 4 INTs for the loss. The answer will be 0, but you will see numerous threads blaming other things. Andy had a couple great throws today, but just stop with the folks judge him unfairly narrative.  Any QB that throws 4 INTs must go to the front of the line on who to blame. 

I said he deserves blame. Of course you wouldn't quote that. I completely stand by my statement. Last year against Cleveland, he completed 25 of 30 passes and in the game day thread and threads in Jungle Noise people blew him shit about the 5 incomplete passes. Also tried to totally discredit his performance because it was against Cleveland. The other 20+ better QBs in the league that played Cleveland weren't hanging 146 ratings on them*. Since it was Andy, it doesn't count.

Or all the talk about how Bruce Gradkowski, Josh Johnson, and AJ McCarron should've started over Dalton. Booing him at the celebrity softball game during the All-Star festivities. Hanging banners at the practice field. Hell, people still talk about how they wish McCarron was the starter here. You're right though, Bengals fans don't treat him unfairly. I completely made that up because there wasn't a negative thread about him today.

*- I know there are only 16 games in a season and Cleveland didn't play 20 different QBs. Without even looking it up, I'd say plenty of people on here would say every QB they played last year was better than Dalton with very few exceptions.

RE: Officially not worried - XsandOs - 09-23-2018

(09-23-2018, 11:21 PM)Tomkat Wrote: Since when can you score TEN POINTS on one play?

Game was over at 3 minute mark. But you are correct.

RE: Officially not worried - impactplaya - 09-24-2018

we are 2 and 1.
defense missing 3 starters
Lawson has yet to make a play.
Mixon is dinged a bit.
theres more to like than dislike.
Boyd has turned his game up a notch.
Lawson has yet to get on track. he will.
offense is producing even with a John Ross who
still figuring out how to execute 100% every play.
2 1 is better than last years 0 and 3.
still alot of fball left...
everything thats wrong is correctable.

RE: Officially not worried - rfaulk34 - 09-24-2018

(09-23-2018, 11:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is BS.Hit the back arrow and see how many threads have been started blaming a QB that threw 4 INTs for the loss. The answer will be 0, but you will see numerous threads blaming other things. Andy had a couple great throws today, but just stop with the folks judge him unfairly narrative.  Any QB that throws 4 INTs must go to the front of the line on who to blame. 

The Hail Mary was meaningless because it ended the game, it's up for grabs and there was a 10 pt difference. When a QB throws a ball that bounces off a WR and is picked off, for most sane people, it's hard to blame the QB. When a WR stops running and doesn't even look back and the ball is a couple yards over his head, it's kind of hard to blame the QB (it's not as if Lap roasted him in game and post game and Dalton yelled at him to "don't stop" on the sideline). The high throw on the first INT was all Dalton. It was a terrible throw and there were a few times that i wondered what he was thinking on throws.

None of that excuses anything though. You're just looking at the stat sheet and ignoring all context, as usual. 

RE: Officially not worried - Joelist - 09-24-2018

The reason that there is only one attempt so far to pin the loss on Andy is everyone else could see what was going on and knew for a fact that it wasn't Andy. Whether you or Goodberry agree or not the announcers and from, what Lapham said and the sideline reaction the coaches believe Ross caused two INTs. It should be noted Andy has made very similar throws to Boyd who caught them easily.

Worried? We should sort of be. The Offensive Line was horrible today but as it is a work in progress such a game was bound to come. Now our DL being worthless against scrubs, that was embarrassing. So was the clueless LB play and Dre imitating Rod "toast" Jones. Hopefully he is benched next week in favor of Dennard and also Ross is benched in favor of Erickson, because if I were Andy I would refuse to target him ever again.

RE: Officially not worried - Bilbo Saggins - 09-24-2018

(09-23-2018, 11:06 PM)XsandOs Wrote: Defense is fine. First year of new scheme, so it will take time for everyone to adjust. By mid-year, when everyone is settled in, we will see the defense at its most efficient form.

For the past three years, this must be one of the worst 3rd and 2 defenses in the league.  I'll never understand what the point of forcing a 3rd and short is when you just give them a free 4 yards every time.  Are you hoping that they drop it?  Maybe scheme it so that a corner can interrupt a 2 yard pass on 3rd and 2?

RE: Officially not worried - Atomic Orange - 09-24-2018

The offense is fine, Very good even. They have scored 89 points.

The defense on the other hand is the worst Bengals D i have seen in a very very long time. I can't remember it ever looking this bad tbh. They have given up 77 points.

Let's be honest with ourselves, without 2 lucky TO's we could easily be 0-3 right now due to this pathetic defense.

Expecting Burfict to fix it is foolish because i don't expect him to last long before another suspension or injury. In fact i expect him to be banned from the NFL within a year.

So yeah - you may not be worried but i sure am.

Also, our drafts have been shit the last few years.