(05-26-2019, 09:18 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If you don't see the issue if AJ is held less accountable in the film room that causes major team issues, not even worth discussing. Players who are worse get cut and lose their job. But, the guy you pay big bucks, you bet they should make sure he is a leader on and off the field (meetings and film).

I think AJ would tell you the same.

(05-26-2019, 09:04 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: AJ is a class act and understands accountability. So, my comment was not a knock on AJ, a compliment he understands you don't blame others first, first you look into the mirror. Point was why did OP jump to AJ was thinking of others, he very well may have been thinking of himself. As for perfection, where did I say I expected any player to be perfect. 

I didn't and don't, but I do expect a ton more production and less mental errors from a great WR than say a QB who has 10 times then mental prep and expertise than any position player on offense of defense. Yet, AD gets trashed all the time, some warranted and some because of others including AJ.

(05-27-2019, 02:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Again, I'd like to know what you guys call "holding players accountable".

I watch a lot of foot ball coaches and I don't here any of them trashing their own players.  And I certainly don't see them benching starters every time they mess up.

The stuff AJ is probably talking about is the type of stuff one of us ever see.  Players late for meetings or slacking in practice.  And most of the coach's "accountability" will also be stuff none of us see like requiring things be repeated until done properly, or physical punishment, or embarrassment in video sessions.  I just am not impressed with the sideline hysteria during a game.  I don't think screaming at a grown man is really an effective technique.

Maybe my position is based on my specific life experience.  In high school I had a bunch of dumb ass coaches.  My last two seasons we only won 3 games.  However in college I played for a coach Ken Sparks who went to 8 national championship games, won 5, and still holds the record for most career wins in Division II.  He had a bunch of very smart assistant coaches who knew how to win games, but they did not yell and scream as much as my stupid high school coaches.

Do you guys really expect Taylor to come out trashing the players or benching starters from week to week?

(05-27-2019, 02:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Again, I'd like to know what you guys call "holding players accountable".

I watch a lot of foot ball coaches and I don't here any of them trashing their own players.  And I certainly don't see them benching starters every time they mess up.

The stuff AJ is probably talking about is the type of stuff one of us ever see.  Players late for meetings or slacking in practice.  And most of the coach's "accountability" will also be stuff none of us see like requiring things be repeated until done properly, or physical punishment, or embarrassment in video sessions.  I just am not impressed with the sideline hysteria during a game.  I don't think screaming at a grown man is really an effective technique.

Maybe my position is based on my specific life experience.  In high school I had a bunch of dumb ass coaches.  My last two seasons we only won 3 games.  However in college I played for a coach Ken Sparks who went to 8 national championship games, won 5, and still holds the record for most career wins in Division II.  He had a bunch of very smart assistant coaches who knew how to win games, but they did not yell and scream as much as my stupid high school coaches.

Do you guys really expect Taylor to come out trashing the players or benching starters from week to week?

(05-27-2019, 02:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Again, I'd like to know what you guys call "holding players accountable".

I watch a lot of foot ball coaches and I don't here any of them trashing their own players.  And I certainly don't see them benching starters every time they mess up.

The stuff AJ is probably talking about is the type of stuff one of us ever see.  Players late for meetings or slacking in practice.  And most of the coach's "accountability" will also be stuff none of us see like requiring things be repeated until done properly, or physical punishment, or embarrassment in video sessions.  I just am not impressed with the sideline hysteria during a game.  I don't think screaming at a grown man is really an effective technique.

Maybe my position is based on my specific life experience.  In high school I had a bunch of dumb ass coaches.  My last two seasons we only won 3 games.  However in college I played for a coach Ken Sparks who went to 8 national championship games, won 5, and still holds the record for most career wins in Division II.  He had a bunch of very smart assistant coaches who knew how to win games, but they did not yell and scream as much as my stupid high school coaches.

Do you guys really expect Taylor to come out trashing the players or benching starters from week to week?

(05-27-2019, 02:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Again, I'd like to know what you guys call "holding players accountable".

I watch a lot of foot ball coaches and I don't here any of them trashing their own players.  And I certainly don't see them benching starters every time they mess up.

The stuff AJ is probably talking about is the type of stuff one of us ever see.  Players late for meetings or slacking in practice.  And most of the coach's "accountability" will also be stuff none of us see like requiring things be repeated until done properly, or physical punishment, or embarrassment in video sessions.  I just am not impressed with the sideline hysteria during a game.  I don't think screaming at a grown man is really an effective technique.

Maybe my position is based on my specific life experience.  In high school I had a bunch of dumb ass coaches.  My last two seasons we only won 3 games.  However in college I played for a coach Ken Sparks who went to 8 national championship games, won 5, and still holds the record for most career wins in Division II.  He had a bunch of very smart assistant coaches who knew how to win games, but they did not yell and scream as much as my stupid high school coaches.

Do you guys really expect Taylor to come out trashing the players or benching starters from week to week?

(05-27-2019, 09:23 PM)McC Wrote: A guy has to at the very least know that benching for poor play is on the table.   Accountability is is answering for what you do.

(05-27-2019, 09:17 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Fred, why do you always try to turn any accountability/ML thread into screaming on the sideline ?

It's so much more than just that.

(05-28-2019, 11:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote:  i don't know why all the hate for marvin.

(05-26-2019, 11:00 AM)pally Wrote: Quote: "I think the biggest thing for us, we have two team rules ... be on time and protect the team," Green said. "I think that's the biggest thing, the two rules for us and holding everybody accountable, holding everybody to a high standard. I think that's the biggest change from Coach Lewis. Everybody's held accountable, everybody's held to that high standard."

(05-28-2019, 11:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote:
All i want to know is what ypu fans would do different from Marvin. Everyone speaks in vague terms about holding players accountable but i don't know what they would do. It seems that they want the coach to trash the players to the media or bench them. Since i dont see many other NFL coaches doing this i don't know why all the hate for marvin.

(05-28-2019, 01:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Accountability would have been sitting down with Mike Brown, after any of the numerous and widely publicized on and off the field incidents involving Vontaze Burfict and Adam Jones, and saying "Mr. Brown, for the good of the team, we really need to move these guys to another franchise".  How can a team demand discipline and accountability from the rest of it's players, when the top two offenders were constantly given a pass and put back into action, at the first available moment? 

(05-28-2019, 02:53 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: I’m pretty sure Marvin wanted those two around just as much, if not more, than Mike. Just based on previous comments from the players and Marvin himself. It is possible that Mike wanted Pac-Man more than Marv, but I doubt very much Marv was against keeping Pac-Man around.

(05-28-2019, 02:53 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: I’m pretty sure Marvin wanted those two around just as much, if not more, than Mike. Just based on previous comments from the players and Marvin himself. It is possible that Mike wanted Pac-Man more than Marv, but I doubt very much Marv was against keeping Pac-Man around.

(05-28-2019, 06:20 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Accountability is a lot harder when each of us are put into position to lower the boom. I have hundreds of employees, yes I know the importance of accountability, but this is the real world so have I and do I give some 2nd and 3rd chances versus firing them? Yes, I do because I know them, in many cases I know their spouses or significant others, their kids and so on so tough to remove their income and benefits.

In most cases, the extra chances do not work out and I know it, but I still do it because I am a human being who cares about people. Yes, the rest of my people then think they may have a free pass. It is tougher to make these calls than some realize.

(05-27-2019, 02:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Again, I'd like to know what you guys call "holding players accountable".

I watch a lot of foot ball coaches and I don't here any of them trashing their own players.  And I certainly don't see them benching starters every time they mess up.

The stuff AJ is probably talking about is the type of stuff one of us ever see.  Players late for meetings or slacking in practice.  And most of the coach's "accountability" will also be stuff none of us see like requiring things be repeated until done properly, or physical punishment, or embarrassment in video sessions.  I just am not impressed with the sideline hysteria during a game.  I don't think screaming at a grown man is really an effective technique.

Maybe my position is based on my specific life experience.  In high school I had a bunch of dumb ass coaches.  My last two seasons we only won 3 games.  However in college I played for a coach Ken Sparks who went to 8 national championship games, won 5, and still holds the record for most career wins in Division II.  He had a bunch of very smart assistant coaches who knew how to win games, but they did not yell and scream as much as my stupid high school coaches.

Do you guys really expect Taylor to come out trashing the players or benching starters from week to week?

(05-26-2019, 11:00 AM)pally Wrote: Katherine Terrell article on Zac contained these gems

Nothing says how bad the atmosphere in the locker room had gotten more than the shade AJ threw at Marvin




http://www.espn.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/31286/bengals-zac-taylor-is-young-but-confident-to-do-things-his-way