(10-16-2019, 03:05 PM)Joelist Wrote: Actually the LB situation is due at least in part to our wacky 2 LB alignment which makes the edges a gold mine and if they spread to cover the edges then the middle is empty. Put another real OLB out there with Vigil and put Brown in his natural MIKE position and the results will be rather a lot better. 

For the OL we just need to admit the talent is not there in at least 2 if not 4 of the 5 spots. And until we can fix it we need to ditch the overly complex and reactive zone blocking scheme and use simple directional drive blocking. Shades of 2017 when after Lazor got Piano Man overruled and the blocking changed to directional the blocking dramatically improved. 

(10-16-2019, 03:05 PM)Joelist Wrote: Actually the LB situation is due at least in part to our wacky 2 LB alignment which makes the edges a gold mine and if they spread to cover the edges then the middle is empty. Put another real OLB out there with Vigil and put Brown in his natural MIKE position and the results will be rather a lot better. 

For the OL we just need to admit the talent is not there in at least 2 if not 4 of the 5 spots. And until we can fix it we need to ditch the overly complex and reactive zone blocking scheme and use simple directional drive blocking. Shades of 2017 when after Lazor got Piano Man overruled and the blocking changed to directional the blocking dramatically improved. 

(10-16-2019, 03:17 PM)samhain Wrote: My answer is that you do for ZT what you did for Marvin in year 1.  Let him sign 3 starter caliber FAs.  Let some established guys go.  Be more aggressive in personnel acquisition.  

You can still look to build thought the draft.  I just feel like we're getting to the point where the holes on the roster are too numerous to fill with picks.  It would take 3 years to become viable through that plan.

(10-16-2019, 12:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Find new starters at the following positions (in priority order):

Offense:
- LT/LG (Reserve Williams for the other)
- RT
- QB
- Future WR1
- RG (after LT, LG, and RT get resolved)
- TE

Defense:
- 2 LBs
- 1 DL
- 2 CBs (one outside, one slot)
- S

ST:
- K

That's 13 positions. You can't realistically expect anyone drafted after 4th round to become a good position player, so that's potentially 3 drafts worth if you only focus on draft. You're looking at 2022 being the earliest the team would become a true contender if the Bengals hit on every draft pick through the first 4 rounds over the next few years.

If the Bengals want to become a true contender before 2022, they need to participate in FA more than getting B-to-C-level veterans.

It's either that or actually get coaches in that can develop late-round talent well on a consistent basis.

What if "Rams-style" only works if you're making moves like the Rams? https://t.co/grD41jY4cR

— JG (@JoeGoodberry) October 15, 2019

(10-16-2019, 03:12 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Realistically? It doesn't.

Short of the NFL forcing them to sell the team or a plane crash, it will continue to be what it's been. I don't think Katie/Troy are the salvation to the Mike Brown Bengals. Besides, we all know Mike Brown is going to live another 20-30 years just to spite Bengals fans.

Maybe they move the team after the lease expires, and then the Jaguars or Buccaneers move in.

(10-16-2019, 03:39 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote:

What if "Rams-style" only works if you're making moves like the Rams? https://t.co/grD41jY4cR

— JG (@JoeGoodberry) October 15, 2019

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

(10-16-2019, 03:41 PM)PhilHos Wrote: "This is Willard Scott the Third and I'm here with Mike Brown on his 126th birthday! Hey, Mike, how you feelin'?"

"DRAFT A QB!"

"What?"

"WHERE'S MARVIN? MY DIAPER NEEDS A CHANGIN'! LOVE THAT GOLDSTAR CHILI!"

"I'm sorry; I think we need to go back to the studio"

"I REALLY AM TRYING TO WIN GAMES! HONEST! OOP. JUST SHIT MYSELF AGAIN."

(10-16-2019, 03:42 PM)PhilHos Wrote: That's like their 3rd trade in the last 2 days, isn't it?

(10-16-2019, 03:05 PM)Joelist Wrote: Actually the LB situation is due at least in part to our wacky 2 LB alignment which makes the edges a gold mine and if they spread to cover the edges then the middle is empty. Put another real OLB out there with Vigil and put Brown in his natural MIKE position and the results will be rather a lot better. 

For the OL we just need to admit the talent is not there in at least 2 if not 4 of the 5 spots. And until we can fix it we need to ditch the overly complex and reactive zone blocking scheme and use simple directional drive blocking. Shades of 2017 when after Lazor got Piano Man overruled and the blocking changed to directional the blocking dramatically improved. 

(10-16-2019, 03:47 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: Then maybe it’s not possible to evaluate them accurately but I’m not prepared to say they’re decent LB’s.

(10-16-2019, 01:19 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Pretty much this.
I would take 2nd rounds for Geno and AJ and 3rd+5th rounders for Dalton.  

(10-16-2019, 03:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Just like they did actually sign free agents like Antonio Bryant and got burned by medicals so they then seemed to stop doing that.

(10-16-2019, 04:33 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Two second rounders for an aging tackle. Do you think other teams value our teams players for what they have done years ago? We are the only one stupid enough to do these kind of things. With his contract and recent film of his play you would be hard pressed to find a team to take him off our hands for free.

(10-16-2019, 03:38 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: The good news is that you can draft a good kicker outside of the first four rounds

I'd also suggest re-signing Dennard as slot corner. He's serviceable and should be affordable.

That would get us down to 11 positions.

Green, Dalton and Ross have trade/compensatory pick value, so that may get a further 3 picks. That would then be 11 picks over 2 drafts to fill 11 holes.

A few solid veterans in free agency, some reclamation projects on former high picks who were no longer fits after scheme changes and maybe some fringe players already on the roster (Darius Phillips/Brandon Wilson/Renell Wren/Fred Johnson/Josh Topou/Michael Jordan/Andrew Brown/Drew Sample) or waiver claims breaking through would allow some flexibility for the inevitable misses - and the rebuild could be done in as little as 2 years.

That may sound optimistic but it is doable: in 2011-2012 over two drafts we picked up 8 starters: Green, Dalton, Boling, Kirkpatrick, Zeitler, Sanu, Marvin Jones, Iloka plus Dunlap and Atkins from the 2010 draft took big steps forwards (we're only in week 6 and Dunlap didn't make his first tackle until Week 7 of his rookie season; Atkins only made one start his rookie year, in Wk 14). The 2011-12 draft haul was boosted by picking top 5 that first year and from trading a former top 5 overall pick and a first round bust but we could be doing that here as well.

(10-16-2019, 03:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Interestingly, I think some of their hesitation to make moves like move away from Dalton could be because of all the bad QB's they drafted before.

Just like they did actually sign free agents like Antonio Bryant and got burned by medicals so they then seemed to stop doing that.

Most GM's don't reign for some 30 years...especially with this poor track record. But, a mistake 20 years ago burns enough that they try to avoid it. Thus they keep Marvin so long past when he became stale.

(10-16-2019, 04:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Who were the OC and DC in 2011-2012? Jay Gruden and Mike Zimmer.
Ever since they left, the Bengals have not gotten many good players from the draft.

To your point, yes it's possible but not likely with the current staff.
They need to get Gruden back as OC (or some other proven OC) and get a proven, respectable DC.