Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise
I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - Printable Version

+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (https://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Cincinnati Bengals / NFL (https://thebengalsboard.com/forum-3.html)
+--- Forum: Draft Central (https://thebengalsboard.com/forum-9.html)
+--- Thread: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? (/thread-22973.html)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5

RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - Jpoore - 02-05-2020

(02-04-2020, 04:14 PM)Synric Wrote: Joe Burrow is a guy you can build your team around. Its not always about "filling holes" it's about finding leaders and playmakers that make everyone else on the roster want to be better. Joe Burrow is that type of player.
But that’s the thing. Which joe burrow u gonna get? Practice squad at best joe burrow? Or elite joe burrow.
(02-04-2020, 10:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well said, bunch more Og, Ross, Price picks are not getting this team over the hump. We need a QB that plays his best against
the best competition. Burrow has proven he can do this in the SEC against the best teams and the best Defenses.

I don't get the trade the Burrow pick thing...
Burrow has also proven that he can just as easily be a practice squad at best player.... idk why so many people are so quick to forget his 2018 season when not everything was perfect for him.

RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - Hammerstripes - 02-05-2020

(02-05-2020, 11:19 AM)Jpoore Wrote: But that’s the thing. Which joe burrow u gonna get? Practice squad at best joe burrow? Or elite joe burrow.
Burrow has also proven that he can just as easily be a practice squad at best player.... idk why so many people are so quick to forget his 2018 season when not everything was perfect for him.

He's proven this?  How so?

RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - Truck_1_0_1_ - 02-05-2020

(02-05-2020, 11:19 AM)Jpoore Wrote: But that’s the thing. Which joe burrow u gonna get? Practice squad at best joe burrow? Or elite joe burrow.
Burrow has also proven that he can just as easily be a practice squad at best player.... idk why so many people are so quick to forget his 2018 season when not everything was perfect for him.

??????

Stop it. Please.

RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - BengalsFan1986 - 02-05-2020

I get the logic behind trading back for more picks, and don’t blame anyone for thinking that’s the best path forward. Those picks could help fill a lot of holes. I feel like the “3 first round picks are better than 1” crowd is solely looking at the decision from a numbers stand point though. The team has more than one hole to fill so should get more picks. Three picks gives us a better chance of finding an elite talent. The team builds through the draft and should focus on getting as many picks as possible. If our only first round pick busts, then we are set back a few years. All of those arguments make sense.

The thing I feel those arguments ignore are some of the intangibles that a guy like Joe Burrow could bring. Burrow seems to be universally respected by teammates, coaches, and the communities he gets involved in, both current and former. This guy carries himself like a leader. From what I’ve read he makes the guys around him better. He studies the game and prepares hard. I can’t find any instances where he got into trouble off the field.

What if we can find someone with all of those qualities at a different position with one of those 3 picks we get from Miami? Even if we could guarantee it, that player won’t have the impact that Joe Burrow could have. The QB is considered to be the single most important position in all of sports. We have a chance to get a true leader at that position. Will all of those qualities carry over to the NFL? We’ll have to wait and see. That said, I think the gains from taking a guy with that potential is well worth the risk. Joe Burrow reaching his potential outweighs any combination of 3-5 additional picks hitting theirs in my opinion. Get that rare piece while we can, then fill in holes later.

TLDR: Arguments for more picks are based on numbers and stats and aren’t taking into consideration the intangible benefits of having a true leader at QB.

RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - Jpoore - 02-05-2020

(02-05-2020, 11:45 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: He's proven this?  How so?
His 2018 season.... he was a unanimous 7th round pick.
(02-05-2020, 11:51 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: ??????

Stop it. Please.
What?

RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - BengalsFan1986 - 02-05-2020

“One evaluator said Burrow entered the season as a likely third- or fourth-round pick, the kind of choice a franchise hopes would yield a stalwart backup.“

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/11/14/joe-burrow-nfl-draft/

That’s a quote from a Washington Post article I found in about 30 seconds of looking. Apparently he wasn’t quite a “unanimous 7th round pick.”

RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - Jpoore - 02-05-2020

(02-05-2020, 12:26 PM)BengalsFan1986 Wrote: “One evaluator said Burrow entered the season as a likely third- or fourth-round pick, the kind of choice a franchise hopes would yield a stalwart backup.“

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/11/14/joe-burrow-nfl-draft/

That’s a quote from a Washington Post article I found in about 30 seconds of looking. Apparently he wasn’t quite a “unanimous 7th round pick.”

I didn’t see that one..... everything I had seen was 6th-7th round.

RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - Synric - 02-05-2020

(02-05-2020, 11:19 AM)Jpoore Wrote: But that’s the thing. Which joe burrow u gonna get? Practice squad at best joe burrow? Or elite joe burrow.
Burrow has also proven that he can just as easily be a practice squad at best player.... idk why so many people are so quick to forget his 2018 season when not everything was perfect for him.


Here is what your favorite site The Draft Network says about him. This is the player he developed into from 2018 to 2019.

Quote:Arm Accuracy - He feathers throws into tight spaces from the pocket and while on the move with regularity. Rarely misses his preferred window and excels in tight window spaces. No issues when his process speeds up, either — accurate on quick RPOs throwing slants into traffic or deeper patterns alike. One of his best skills.
Decision Making - Elite. Nine times out of ten he's got defenses diagnosed and knows where to quickly move to get the ball out to disperse to soft spaces. Cool as the other side of the pillow under pressure, natural play maker who shows extended play ability but also wins at a rare rate within structure thanks to play diagnosis.
Progressions - Full field is at his disposal and the pace of his reads is pretty startling, which makes it highly difficult to back door him or overwhelm him with pressure. Appreciate his eye movement to move pieces on the board and create vacancies and he'll work back to targets he knows could further uncover when forced to hold ball.
Anticipation - Off the charts feel for the game. Love how well he diagnoses and anticipates pressure reps and understands where to find his hot throws — makes so many simple plays by knowing when his protection is outgunned that other college QBs get trapped with. Spot throws and accuracy are money, high end spot thrower.
Poise - Joe Cool. Love his sense of extending plays within the pocket — he'll slide and set up rushers like a back does pressing the LOS on his pass drops or within the pocket. Makes some circus plays to backhand or shovel the ball out — any means necessary. Hardly ever puts the ball at risk with decision making or looking to create a play.
Arm Strength - Does he have a cannon? No. He meets requisite arm strength but if he's not able to stride and torque throws, his far sideline throws can take a while to hit home. He's got plenty of velocity when set up on his platform — issues mainly show up when he's off script and sees opportunity to gouge for big plays in tight space.
Pocket Awareness - Unbelievable feel of sliding within the pocket. He'll temper and adjust drops and landmarks based on feeling collapsing pocket. Has a pair of eyes in the back of his head to step up and climb ladder versus outside pressure. Doesn't often take sacks but is constantly in a state of protecting the football as a passer with 2 hands.
Mechanics - His rotational torque is strong, he's a lower half thrower that finds his juice through his delivery — hence the velocity issues when he's not set or on the move. Quick release compliments football IQ, allowing him to bait and pull defenders or blitzers out of his desired throwing windows.
Footwork - Strong. Balanced passer while upright on his platform. He's got free swinging trail leg to make sure hips come through his delivery/ follow-through. Does well to reset his feet working through progressions for accurate throws. Will work himself down hill once flushed from the pocket to ensure he's got momentum into throws.
Run Ability - Well deserving of the tag "sneaky athletic". Has hit QB draw and found the corner against free running blitzers after breaking contain with his late slide in the pocket. Isn't an elite athlete, but he's smooth in short spaces and has enough burst to surprise and claim a first down against man coverage.

Best Trait - Football IQ
Worst Trait - Arm Strength
Best Film - Oklahoma (2019)
Worst Film -UCF (2018)
Red Flags - None
Player Summary - With elite football intelligence, Joe Burrow solves nearly every riddle a defense can pose to him before the snap. A refined pocket passer with an innate sense of the pocket, Burrow will defeat pressure with his legs and arm alike — he projects best into a modern spread offense, where he can diagnose soft spaces in the defense and read the full field of play to disperse the ball. With intangibles through the roof, Burrow is a face of the franchise prospect and plug and play starter.


RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - Au165 - 02-05-2020

(02-05-2020, 01:35 PM)Synric Wrote: Here is what your favorite site The Draft Network says about him. This is the player he developed into from 2018 to 2019.

Right, weird idea that you want a player to develop. If you look at the tape he is working through reads and making smart football decisions. That doesn't disappear with worse personnel, different scheme, or whatever else excuse people want to throw out for why he made that leap. You simply don't do what he did without being special, as I said other people in history have had better schemes, better personnel, better coordinators yet no one has EVER had a better single season as a QB. That alone tells you that the difference between them and him was in fact him. 

RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - Truck_1_0_1_ - 02-05-2020

(02-05-2020, 12:41 PM)Jpoore Wrote: I didn’t see that one..... everything I had seen was 6th-7th round.

CBD, DraftScout, your beloved TDN and Walter, all had him in the 3-4 (1 5th) round range, coming into the year.

Stop it.

RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - Synric - 02-05-2020

(02-05-2020, 01:56 PM)Au165 Wrote: Right, weird idea that you want a player to develop. If you look at the tape he is working through reads and making smart football decisions. That doesn't disappear with worse personnel, different scheme, or whatever else excuse people want to throw out for why he made that leap. You simply don't do what he did without being special, as I said other people in history have had better schemes, better personnel, better coordinators yet no one has EVER had a better single season as a QB. That alone tells you that the difference between them and him was in fact him. 

Burrow wasnt just great this year he got better every week. I started following him intently after the Florida game but he wasn't as good then as he was when he stomped OU and picked apart Georgia and Clemson.

RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 02-05-2020

(02-05-2020, 11:19 AM)Jpoore Wrote: But that’s the thing. Which joe burrow u gonna get? Practice squad at best joe burrow? Or elite joe burrow.
Burrow has also proven that he can just as easily be a practice squad at best player.... idk why so many people are so quick to forget his 2018 season when not everything was perfect for him.

Burrow just gets better and better, he isn't getting worse.

RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - Nicomo Cosca - 02-05-2020

(02-05-2020, 12:15 PM)Jpoore Wrote: His 2018 season.... he was a unanimous 7th round pick.
What?

No he wasn’t. More like a 4th or 5th round pick.

But who cares about that? You can’t just pretend 2019 didn’t happen. If you remove the best year for any college QB it’s going to change things.

RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 02-05-2020

(02-05-2020, 11:19 AM)Jpoore Wrote: But that’s the thing. Which joe burrow u gonna get? Practice squad at best joe burrow? Or elite joe burrow.
Burrow has also proven that he can just as easily be a practice squad at best player.... idk why so many people are so quick to forget his 2018 season when not everything was perfect for him.

Burrow's floor is practice squad and Love's floor is Kirk Cousins?

LOL

(02-05-2020, 12:15 PM)Jpoore Wrote: His 2018 season.... he was a unanimous 7th round pick.
What?

(02-05-2020, 12:41 PM)Jpoore Wrote: I didn’t see that one..... everything I had seen was 6th-7th round.

Jesus, you don't even know what unanimous means. Even by your own admission, it was never unanimous.  Not that anyone believed you, but dayum!

RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 02-05-2020

(02-05-2020, 01:35 PM)Synric Wrote: Here is what your favorite site The Draft Network says about him. This is the player he developed into from 2018 to 2019.

I want others to watch Joe Burrow throw on the run outside of the pocket and tell me what you think of his arm strength.  Because I don't see questionable arm strength as others have suggested.

RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - Au165 - 02-05-2020

(02-05-2020, 04:36 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I want others to watch Joe Burrow throw on the run outside of the pocket and tell me what you think of his arm strength.  Because I don't see questionable arm strength as others have suggested.


This video is actually a good explanation of everything good about him, but also why some people think the arm strength issues exist at times. First off, watch his feet. A QB's feet should follow their eyes as they go through progression but a lot of guys will scan with their heads then reset the lower body which can lead to late or errant throws. Burrows feet are always moving, hence the hopping motion. This is actually a huge deal and something that I got to think Joe Brady worked with him on because I didn't see it nearly enough last year.

Now Burrow found himself making a lot of these off platform throws (when he rolls right in this video), or essentially off balance in terms of proper base and mechanics. When you get off platform you lose a decent amount of your lower body drive so it really does become more of an "Arm Strength" issues. The reality though is his arm is fine when his base is set but his "arm strength" drops off platform like it does for 90% of anyone not named Aaron Rodgers or Pat Mahomes. He made a lot of these plays this year though, which in themselves are very difficult to make, but it kind of fed a weak arm narrative that isn't really there.

In the NFL there are three real ways to view arm strength. Good enough, not good enough, and special. He is good enough, he isn't special, but that is fine because good enough is fine in the NFL. 

RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - Whatever - 02-05-2020

(02-05-2020, 11:19 AM)Jpoore Wrote: But that’s the thing. Which joe burrow u gonna get? Practice squad at best joe burrow? Or elite joe burrow.
Burrow has also proven that he can just as easily be a practice squad at best player.... idk why so many people are so quick to forget his 2018 season when not everything was perfect for him.

Most QB's on NFL practice squads could beat Kent State in the biggest game of their college careers.  Just saying..

RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - Nicomo Cosca - 02-05-2020

(02-05-2020, 04:26 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Burrow's floor is practice squad and Love's floor is Kirk Cousins?

LOL

[Image: giphy.gif]

RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - Nati#1 - 02-05-2020

If we get offered something off the charts I would settle for Tua.

RE: I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing? - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 02-05-2020

(02-05-2020, 07:45 PM)Nati#1 Wrote: If we get offered something off the charts I would settle for Tua.

Why? Might not ever play a snap with that injury...