(08-10-2020, 03:52 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I agree QB's usually get the look since they are high profile, but the competition is what I think makes this a more bold prediction, not too mention the unknowns:

1) With less interaction due to Covid, will it be harder for a rookie QB to adjust to the league then say a rookie RB? 
2) With the shortened off-season, how long till Burrow builds a good chemistry with his wideout, not too mention how long till the O-line gels?

It will be an interesting season.

(08-10-2020, 04:13 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Of the safeties in the league, 6 ranked in the top 100 list.

Jamal Adams, S, Seattle Seahawks (No. 27 overall)

Minkah Fitzpatrick, S, Pittsburgh Steelers (No. 35)

Tyrann Mathieu, S, Kansas City Chiefs (No. 39)

Harrison Smith, S, Minnesota Vikings (No. 64)

Earl Thomas, S, Baltimore Ravens (No. 75)

Budda Baker, S, Arizona Cardinals (No. 97)




After those its who:

Derwin James (electrifying when healthy. Have to see how he recovers.)

Anthony Harris Minnesota 

Justin Simmons Denver

Devin McCourty New England (Age has to catch up at some point)

Then who, Tre Boston, Jesse Bates, Vonn Bell, Jabrill Peppers??

I could see Jesse making it to the top 10. Should be a better front 7, which should increase his chances for INTs, and with the addition of Bell and the other DBs he might be able to drop back and just play a true center field Free Safety like and may put up some crazy numbers.

(08-10-2020, 04:29 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Micah Hyde from Buffalo graded out pretty well last season, and was part of an elite defense. I’m not saying I’d be shocked if Bates cracked the top 10, I just think it’s the least likely of the 5 predictions. There was also some really good safeties taken in this draft (Xavier McKinney, Grant Delpit, etc).

(08-10-2020, 09:23 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: The word "elite" gets tossed around often and I have always thought of it, numerically speaking, to be within the top 1%.  Semantics notwithstanding, you're description about Buffalo's defense got me thinking.  

If you look at certain "elite" players, they almost always come from really strong units.  Focusing on the defensive side of the ball, I always think of Aeneas Williams as a bright spot in a pretty bleak time for the Cardinals.  I was really glad to see the guy get to the Super Bowl with the Rams at the end of his career, although they lost.  Williams was a stud player on a dud team.  I am not saying that is Bates.  He struggled in both coverage and tackling last year, although I will say he is at least a willing tackler.  


When Bates is surrounded by better talent and able to do his "center field" thing, which is his strength, I see him capitalizing on an improved pass rush and LB play, as well as better play (hopefully) out of Waynes, Alexander, WJIII, and Bell.  In other words, although the improvements are all over the defense, I could see it really impacting the stat sheet for Bates.

Plus, Bates will be coming up on a new contract and this is his third year.  Should be fun to watch.  

(08-10-2020, 09:40 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I generally equate elite to be top 5. Top 5 QB, top 5 WR, defense etc. Is Buffalo’s defense the 2000 Ravens? No, but they’re one of the best units in the league, and are the main reason that team was so good last year.

(08-10-2020, 09:46 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Top 5 in a league of 32 means that they aren't even in the top 15% if they are team 5.  See what I mean?  But I agree with your general point that they have a really damn good defense.  I am kind of a closet Bills fan now that the Colts, Saints, and Eagles have won Super Bowls.  The old "Misery loves company" argument.  Especially the Saints and Eagles.  The way that fan base responded and how much fun they had.  I can only hope and pray that happens once while my dad is still here to enjoy it.  

(08-10-2020, 09:55 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Well, I’d say a QB that is top 5 out of 32 is absolutely elite. Mahomes, Lamar, Brees, Wilson, Rodgers...is whoever you rank 5th out of those guys not elite? And that’s not even including the GOAT, who looked like he’s finally declining, but I’d personally still consider him elite. He’ll probably have a huge year with those WR’s and Gronk in TB.

(08-10-2020, 10:43 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Brady would not be elite where he is today, IMHO.  He certainly was, though.  

Maybe a better way of framing it is saying top 5 out of all 90 QBs in the NFL.  Then your % is close to the top 5%.  Top 5 defense being "elite", out of 32 total defenses just runs against my definition of elite.  

I would say there is often 1 or maybe 2 elite defenses in the NFL.  Rarely are there 5.  

(08-10-2020, 11:02 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Pats, 9ers, Bills, Ravens, all were last season, imo. You could also make a case for the Steelers who had no business winning 8 games without Ben.

But going back to the QB’s I mentioned, even leaving out Brady which of the other 5 aren’t elite in your opinion? I think you’re getting too wrapped up in percentages honestly.

(08-10-2020, 12:51 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Ravens defense was far from Elite.   They struggled mightily against the run early, hence bringing back Josh Bynes.  And I would say "really good" or even "great", but not elite.  Elite to me in terms of QBs right now in the NFL is Patrick Mahommes and Drew Brees.   Lamar had one amazing season, which was largely based on what he provides as a rushing threat.  That rarely lasts in the NFL.  Heck, RGIII had an amazing year 1 as well.  Then, injuries and poof.  Those two are playing as elite QBs right now.  There's no wrong or right, we just see the term "elite" differently.  

(08-10-2020, 09:03 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Please don't read this as an attack on you Murdock, but these arguments about Covid and having less time to prepare hurting rookie QB play don't make that much sense to me.  If anything, I think offenses will have the advantages on defenses (at least in the beginning).  Defenses having to cover and tackle without the full-speed practices and pre-season games seems like a greater liability than running and catching.  Blocking may be an issue, but that is going to be every team. 

When in college, the NCAA has practice regulations that prohibit teams from organized practices (with coaches) to 20 hours per week  (i believe...it may have changed.  That rule didn't exist when I was in college and we went WAY beyond it).  Burrow was able to be dominant against the best defenses in college football in one year with a new scheme and OC.  

I think Burrow will be downright amazing in year 1.  

(08-10-2020, 10:55 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Not an attack at all. It is actually the best part about the board. Can have different opinions on a topic and discuss it without things devolving (usually) and everyone in the end is still routing for the same team to win.

He very well may be amazing year one, I just always hear rookie QBs talking about adjusting to the speed of the game and how the windows are smaller and the DBs are faster, etc, etc. I just worry with a limited amount of pre-season snaps and shortened less contact type training camp it will take him a little longer to adjust to the speed. We will find out though.

(08-09-2020, 10:51 PM)Synric Wrote: Contrary to popular belief their are other positions in the race for OROY. Quarterbacks get the attention and Burrow, Tua, and Herbert will top the lists but there was ALOT of talented offensive players at then top of the draft.

The 2020 draft had 6 Wide Receivers and a Running Back in the first round and 7 Wide Receivers and 5 Running Backs in the second round. 

(08-10-2020, 10:55 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Not an attack at all. It is actually the best part about the board. Can have different opinions on a topic and discuss it without things devolving (usually) and everyone in the end is still routing for the same team to win.

He very well may be amazing year one, I just always hear rookie QBs talking about adjusting to the speed of the game and how the windows are smaller and the DBs are faster, etc, etc. I just worry with a limited amount of pre-season snaps and shortened less contact type training camp it will take him a little longer to adjust to the speed. We will find out though.