(09-28-2020, 12:15 PM)Au165 Wrote: Higgins dropped a big catch on that last drive, that one hurt. Love what the rookie did, but you have to catch that pass. He definelty has a solid future going forward with Joe.

(09-28-2020, 12:44 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: and Ross has given us YAC? 

(09-28-2020, 12:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: He's not? He's one of the quickest players in the league, not just long speed. Problem is he's not catching the ball to be able to show that very much.

Let me rephrase my statement, as there is some truth to yours...
Someone with Ross's speed SHOULD open up the field more for others.
And while Burrow is completing passes fine in the short and intermediate, they aren't getting a ton of YAC (from what I recall seeing anyway). With a more stretched field, they should have more room to run.

Or maybe I just haven't watched the games close enough to notice the YAC.

(09-28-2020, 12:48 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If that would have been Ross drop, he would bet getting tarred and feathered by his haters.

(09-28-2020, 12:56 PM)Au165 Wrote: Right, but to be fair one is in game 3 the other is in year 4.

(09-28-2020, 12:52 PM)Au165 Wrote: No, he isn't. The plays he has caught the ball he has done little in terms of making anyone miss. Saying he is one of the "quickest in the league" is a pure guess at this point because he hasn't shown it and all speed-related claims are based on a 40 time now 4 years ago.

As for the claim that he would open it up for YAC, that isn't really true either. He played the first two games and we didn't have a bunch of YAC then. The theory is flawed because where the assisting tacklers are after a catch isn't really impacted simply because the single high cheated towards him because he would have been deep center if not, which wouldn't change his ability to assist on a slant or other underneath route. We had plenty of two high shells yesterday, presumably the thing Ross would force teams into more and still didn't find much after the catch. 

As it stands, John Ross brings nothing to this team if he can't catch a short or intermediate route. The issues we are having with our O line really nullify his deep threat ability for the most part so he has to win underneath first to help us slow down other teams then we can use him over the top, but when he doesn't even look for a ball thrown his way on a drag he has essentially relegated himself to the bench. 

(09-28-2020, 12:52 PM)Au165 Wrote: No, he isn't. The plays he has caught the ball he has done little in terms of making anyone miss. Saying he is one of the "quickest in the league" is a pure guess at this point because he hasn't shown it and all speed-related claims are based on a 40 time now 4 years ago.

As for the claim that he would open it up for YAC, that isn't really true either. He played the first two games and we didn't have a bunch of YAC then. The theory is flawed because where the assisting tacklers are after a catch isn't really impacted simply because the single high cheated towards him because he would have been deep center if not, which wouldn't change his ability to assist on a slant or other underneath route. We had plenty of two high shells yesterday, presumably the thing Ross would force teams into more and still didn't find much after the catch. 

As it stands, John Ross brings nothing to this team if he can't catch a short or intermediate route. The issues we are having with our O line really nullify his deep threat ability for the most part so he has to win underneath first to help us slow down other teams then we can use him over the top, but when he doesn't even look for a ball thrown his way on a drag he has essentially relegated himself to the bench. 

(09-28-2020, 02:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Not actually true.
I was basing his quickness of a segment he did on Sports Science.
I can't find the actual segment anymore, but you can see part of it on YouTube. However, the definition on YouTube is fuzzy so you can't make out the numbers. But back when it aired, it was in HD and they analyzed his speed and acceleration to determine he not only was straight-line fast but also elite quickness and burst.

(09-28-2020, 02:32 PM)Au165 Wrote: This is going to sound like such a weird flex, not meant to be, but I am really tight with the developers of Madden at EA. They have access to the much deeper next-gen stats the NFL only releases to teams and partners that don't get published, and essentially Ross flashes elite straight-line speed occasionally (not top 5 in the league though) but rarely shows elite speed in any other part of his game.

I just have lost any interest in the guy, especially knowing he is probably going somewhere else next year.

(09-28-2020, 10:13 AM)Whatever Wrote: His big 19 yard catch came on a busted coverage where he was left completely undefended. Nobody with any objectivity is giving him a bunch of credit for that play.  

If you're going to have your camp spout off in the media about your usage, you'd better be able to win against man coverage in the end zone.  He had three opportunities and was beaten by his opposite number on every one. He got bailed out on a ticky tack PI on the first one.  

In the red zone, DB's play the slant a lot more aggressively.  You don't want to be throwing a bunch of slants to a WR that doesn't run good routes and doesn't have the physical ability to run a whip route to keep the CB guessing.  

If you're going to beat your chest and scream for the ball, you'd better play a lot better than Tate did Sunday.

(09-28-2020, 02:41 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Thanks for sharing.

Perhaps he's just able to show off his elite speed and quickness without pads on, not as much on the field. I dunno.

If you watch the NFL 360 interview with Ross and DeSean Jackson, they talk about how DeSean gave Ross advice to not always go full speed. Ross has taken that advice perhaps too literally.

It's worth noting that 4 of the Bengals' WRs are actually set to hit FA after this season:
Ross
Green
Thomas
Erickson

Tate is set to follow suit the following year.

I'd say out of that group, none other than AJ are even $5 mill a year at this point, right? And AJ probably not worth more than $10-12 mill?

(09-28-2020, 05:06 AM)kevin Wrote: Amongst the Negative threads,  it was a Tie, not a Loss.   So I add one Positive thread.   Higgins and Tate are becoming good targets for rookie Burrow.  Boyd had a good game.  Green was well covered.

Higgins 2 touchdowns will no doubt raise his Fantasy Points to Fantasy owners line-up to add him on.  Word was that Burrow was timing the ball to Higgins great in no preseason August practices.

Higgins at first pick in 2 is like a 1st round pick.  

I was tired of watching Ross drop passes.  The big race planned for Ross and Billy Hamilton a couple years ago.  Turned out Hamilton could not hit, Ross can not catch.

So Welcome nice games from Higgins and Tate to go with Boyd and Green who was covered.  Ross was a healthy scratch, meaning the others are out playing him.

The blocking did get better in 2nd half but tired out in overtime.  For one half we saw what Burrow, Boyd, Green, Higgins, Tate, Bernard, Mixon can do if they get this Blocking improved.  A blocking problem left over from Marvin, Mike and Duck Token.... Zac inherited the worst O Line in NFL. No preseason did not help.  In the 2nd Half the blocking was good enough to show Higgins and Tate are pretty good.

Cheers for Higgins in this Tie, not a loss.   Higgins looks pretty good, when Burrow given a chance to throw.

(09-28-2020, 12:15 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Tate has as many catches as Ross - 2.

Happy for Higgins with the TDs but Tate needs to have (way) more catches to justify putting him in over the potential value Ross adds with his speed to stretch the field. And I know the viewpoint of he still may not catch with his speed, but he can help open up the field more for others whereas Tate cannot.

(09-28-2020, 02:49 PM)Au165 Wrote: I am okay with moving on from the four (assuming Thomas doesn't ascend) and taking another WR on day 2 in what should be another super deep WR draft. I also wouldn't mind looking out to FA for a #3 WR who has some speed, this class could have a decent amount of those in a mid tier option.

(09-28-2020, 09:06 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Tate had a big catch on a deep out route for 19 yds.
Then he had another catch for 10.
In my book thats 2 1st downs.
People gripe and complain a about the end zone fade routes. Well for Tate doesnt call his
Own route. Hes runs what is designed.
And that is a issue I see with the OC and WR coach. The creativity and variation of the routes
Overall is lacking. Tate is more than capable of running a simple fade route in the redzone.
As anyone seen the WRs run a stop as go route...double moves....a pivot route..
I havent.
Tate hauls in 2 ,1st downs people still whine and cry wha wha wha.

(09-28-2020, 02:56 PM)BengalChris Wrote: It is Higgins who took Ross' job, not Tate. The current pecking order is something like this: Boyd, Green, Higgins, Thomas, Tate, then Ross.

If we include TEs and RBs then Ross' place drops down the list even further.

Ross has caught 2 of 7 targets for 17 yards. Thomas can easily fill the same role and is a much more reliable receiver.

We've witnessed Ross tumble from bring the #3 WR to the #6 in 3 short games.

 

(09-28-2020, 02:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: If you have an offensive mastermind who thinks, "John Ross is fast. Let's have him run straight down the field, right by everyone" and, "Auden Tate is tall and has a crazy big catch radius. Let's throw a few fades to him in the EZ", then you have a pretty clueless, stupid coach. 

(09-28-2020, 02:32 PM)Au165 Wrote: This is going to sound like such a weird flex, not meant to be, but I am really tight with the developers of Madden at EA. They have access to the much deeper next-gen stats the NFL only releases to teams and partners that don't get published, and essentially Ross flashes elite straight-line speed occasionally (not top 5 in the league though) but rarely shows elite speed in any other part of his game.

I just have lost any interest in the guy, especially knowing he is probably going somewhere else next year.

(09-28-2020, 02:42 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Your obsession with tearing Tate down and propping Ross up is just, very curious. Higgins is the future.