(10-20-2020, 10:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Boyd already did.

(10-20-2020, 10:07 PM)Destro Wrote: "New" as in past this present time, not necessarily a second one.

(10-20-2020, 10:09 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m not ready to go quite that doom and gloom yet. Mixon just signed a new contract as well.

We’ll see how long ZT gets if we don’t start winning.

(10-20-2020, 02:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: And being Marvin-era players, they are now playing for a HC who has been (much) worse than the one they are used to playing for.
They're essentially saying the problem isn't them, it's the coaching.

Think of it like any other company.
You go through a big organizational change and bring in some new leadership, who changes things up.
Some of the incumbents are there, but some new people are brought in too.
With the new model, performance has declined overall, including the incumbents.
The incumbents remember the days of old and felt they were more successful in that older model compared to this new model with this new leadership.
Is the problem the new leadership/model, the incumbents not able to adapt well to the new model, or a mix of both?

(10-20-2020, 03:10 PM)lone bengal Wrote: Can’t we just say Taylor isn’t a great coach and we have a bad roster with underperforming high paid vets. Hate that fans make it one way or the other. Saying things like these veterans know how to win that’s why they hate Taylor. With Shawn Williams, Atkins and Dunlap starting in Marvin’s last season the defense was historically bad. Both staffs wanted nothing to do with Ross.

(10-20-2020, 02:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Boyd, Bates, and Jackson are all Marvin era players.


The Zac era players have 3 wins in 22 games.

(10-20-2020, 01:34 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Tee Higgins 1-4-1
Joe Burrow 1-4-1
Jonah Williams 3-18-1
Tyler Boyd 22-36-2
Jessie Bates 9-28-1
WJIII 22-36-2
Mackenzie Alexander

(10-21-2020, 12:56 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 6 of the 7 guys are all losers in the NFL. They have never experienced a winning season in their NFL careers. So they don't fully appreciate how much of a shitshow this team currently is.

The 7th guy was a 2nd round bust mediocre backup on a winner who had to settle for a 1yr/$4m deal in FA.

Did I get it right?

(10-20-2020, 09:57 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I believe week 4, Bates was complaining about defense..  i also make a difference between whining and making a statement...Atkins not in last week for more plays over what we had in was crazy.. i watched a play and our DT was not sure what to hell to do on pre snap.. hell i was whining

(10-21-2020, 01:21 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote:

(10-21-2020, 12:56 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 6 of the 7 guys are all losers in the NFL. They have never experienced a winning season in their NFL careers. So they don't fully appreciate how much of a shitshow this team currently is.

The 7th guy was a 2nd round bust mediocre backup on a winner who had to settle for a 1yr/$4m deal in FA.

Did I get it right?

(10-20-2020, 03:10 PM)lone bengal Wrote: With Shawn Williams, Atkins and Dunlap starting in Marvin’s last season the defense was historically bad. 

(10-20-2020, 01:34 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Tee Higgins
Joe Burrow
Jonah Williams
Tyler Boyd
Jessie Bates
WJIII
Mackenzie Alexander


For me, it is two things:  They are producing and they aren't whining about anything.

These players are doing the complete opposite:

Carlos Dunlap
Geno Atkins
Darius Phillips
John Ross
AJ Green
Shawn Williams

I know having AJ Green on the bottom list will annoy some, but his attitude and behavior in the first 5 games of the season was awful, so sorry...not sorry.  

Why are the players in the first list producing?  Jessie Bates isn't just a Pro Bowler, but maybe an All-Pro.  Jonah Williams is coming on strong.  Higgins had a huge game, and Boyd has been very steady.  I almost put Lawson in the first group but he didn't have much impact against the Colts, but at least he isn't pissing and moaning about it or playing time.  These players are from all different position groups, so you can't say "it's the defense" or something like that.  Dunlap was one of the best DEs (statistically) in the NFL the last 8 games of the season last year, but so what?  Your season was already over?  Since when is it acceptable to simply turn it on for half a season?  He clearly hasn't found that light switch yet this year.  

As much as I wanted to throat-punch ZT for his play-calling after getting up 21-0 and scream at Anarumo to get pressure on Rivers, these players in the second list represent a hell of a lot of the money this team has spent on payroll.  I think it is time to put more ownness on them and let the coaches try to work around them as they will not be in the long term plans.  

Lastly, I just heard the Dolphins, at 3-3 (one game out of first in AFC East), are starting Tua after the bye week.  This, with Fitzpatrick playing extremely well.  I have no idea if this is best for them in the long run, but I have to admire their focus on their franchise QB and not an aging (but pretty amazing) Fitzy.  The Bengals might be trying to do the same thing.  Why focus on a lazy, underperforming, complaining group of players that are not a part of the long term plans?  Yes, I wanted to win this year also, but not at the expense of Burrow and the long term.

(10-21-2020, 10:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: In Marvin's last season Atkins had 10 sacks, 13 TFL, and 35 pressures (hurries + QB knock downs + sacks)
Dunlap had 8 sacks, 8 PDs, 21 QB hits, and 38 pressures 
Shawn Williams had 110 tackles (with only 10 missed tackles), 5 interceptions (with on td)

It is silly to blame guys who played great for a poor team defense.

(10-21-2020, 01:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Agree with everything you said, I just don't know what the FO can do about it right now. They would eat a ton of dough if they
just cut all those guys and brought in other players to fill their spots. The time to move on from these players was in the Offseason.

(10-21-2020, 02:43 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: If you get trade offers before the deadline for Ross, Green, Atkins, and Dunlap....take it.  Hope for third or fourth round picks for the top players, and anything for Ross.