(11-17-2020, 05:48 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Definitely in favor of letting WJIII walk.

Trae Waynes is due 16 million dollars next year.  I'd imagine the market for WJIII will north of 10 mil.  I would not feel at all comfortable with having around 30 million dollars locked up into those two corners.

I hope we didn't overpay for Waynes, but I do believe he's far from elite.  And I feel the same about WJIII.  He's too inconsistent.  From both in his career, and from game to game.  He's very good in man, but leaves a lot to be desired in zone.

IMHO, the market for corners is incredibly inflated.  Outside of the elite players, you have a jumbled up group of guys that sometimes flash and sometimes don't.  And they get grossly overpaid (See Dre Kirkpatricks old deal).

Invest into getting pressure on the QB and you can make average CB's look great.  Find a mid-level vet at 3-8 mil per to pair with Waynes.  Maybe look into bringing Mackenzie Alexander back too.  See if you can hit on someone in the draft in the mid rounds as well.  And save that cap space from a WJIII deal to use on OL/DL/LB.

(11-17-2020, 03:42 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I get the impression they plan to shift further and further to a 3-4, especially as we've seen Atkins primarily used at the NT position this season.
If they do actually make that shift to more of a 3-4, the Bengals will need actual 3-4 DEs with some length.

If they do that, I think Derek Wolfe is a great veteran option that should come cheap. Let him finish his career in his college town.

(11-17-2020, 07:23 PM)J24 Wrote: The 3-4 system we use isn't a traditional 2 gap 3-4 style and we play Nickle the majority of the time anyways so it's not a big deal. 

(11-17-2020, 07:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The system we use is also not exactly the same it was last year, correct?
Could they not be shifting more to a traditional 3-4?
I don't know with this defense. I just know it's trash right now.

(11-17-2020, 05:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Thuney - Definite upgrade, but will the Bengals fork over $14 mill per year to a guard?
Scherff - Same as Thuney
Linsley - While Linsley is a good C, I don't see the Bengals moving on from Hopkins.
Trent Williams - He's really good, but Jonah has been really good too. Do you want to bench/move the Bengals' best OL to bring in Trent? Or put Trent at RT?
Villanueva - Jonah has actually been slightly better than Villanueva. So do you put Villanueva at RT to replace Hart? Hart has been a better run blocker than Villanueva.
For Trent Williams and Villanueva, they are both 32 years old. I'm not sure the Bengals will invest big money into an OL who is beyond 30.

Let's instead be more realistic.
The two OT spots and the C spot are least likely to be replaced in the offseason because we've seen decent-or-better performance from those positions. The OG spots are the biggest weakness right now, but we've seen Spain come in and play adequately. Spain and/or XSF might be able to help solidify the OG spots by season's end.

(11-17-2020, 02:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Given that the defense is in worse shape than the offense (both from a personnel and scheme perspective), the defense needs to be addressed more than the offense.

It becomes even more critical if WJ3 and/or Lawson leaves in FA.

I think the team can get by on offense without adding any big FA, and they can address a couple offensive pieces in the draft (OL, WR).
DL needs 2-3 more decent-or-better players. CB needs added depth, possibly a new starter.
LB could use an upgrade too but they've already invested 4 draft picks into it from the past two years.
I would look for EDGE as my top priority for FA, followed by DB/OL.

(11-17-2020, 09:10 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: Thuney is 27 Scherff is 32. I think a 4 year 45-50 Million salary gets Thuney signed.
Trent Williams would cost too much and I am not sure about his attitude. Dominating player though when he wants to play.
Love Villanueva and what he is all about. Doubtful he would come play for the Bengals.
I think jury is still out on Hopkins. I like him though but would switch him to Guard if we found a better Center.
XSF has not shown anything here or with the Cowboys that makers me think he is more than a good backup.

It is all about protecting JB. I am not sure how much I love Mixon for the money he gets paid. He runs well but is not the best at pass protection. It is too late to trade him because it would be too big of a dead money hit. That money could have been better spent elsewhere. I thought Perine played very well and he is a bigger back by 20 lbs. I am not sure how good Perine is in pass protection or catching passes out of the backfield. though.

Thuney is the best FA target for us in the offseason.

(11-17-2020, 09:33 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Feel the same, Spain is the guy that needs to be retained clearly on Offense but the Defense needs a pass rush worse than 
anything else. Bring back Lawson and add to the D-line are my thoughts on Free Agency. Try and be more like the other teams
of the AFC North build the pass rush and the trenches on both sides along with adding quality Corners.

Killed us having Tony Brown out there against the Steelers and killed us with Sims before with these back ups.

Actually thought Jalin Davis had an okay day but we are really hurting at CB especially with Alexander getting a concussion and
Waynes and Phillips out.

(11-17-2020, 05:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Thuney - Definite upgrade, but will the Bengals fork over $14 mill per year to a guard?
Scherff - Same as Thuney
Linsley - While Linsley is a good C, I don't see the Bengals moving on from Hopkins.
Trent Williams - He's really good, but Jonah has been really good too. Do you want to bench/move the Bengals' best OL to bring in Trent? Or put Trent at RT?
Villanueva - Jonah has actually been slightly better than Villanueva. So do you put Villanueva at RT to replace Hart? Hart has been a better run blocker than Villanueva.
For Trent Williams and Villanueva, they are both 32 years old. I'm not sure the Bengals will invest big money into an OL who is beyond 30.

Let's instead be more realistic.
The two OT spots and the C spot are least likely to be replaced in the offseason because we've seen decent-or-better performance from those positions. The OG spots are the biggest weakness right now, but we've seen Spain come in and play adequately. Spain and/or XSF might be able to help solidify the OG spots by season's end.

(11-17-2020, 05:48 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Definitely in favor of letting WJIII walk.

Trae Waynes is due 16 million dollars next year.  I'd imagine the market for WJIII will north of 10 mil.  I would not feel at all comfortable with having around 30 million dollars locked up into those two corners.

I hope we didn't overpay for Waynes, but I do believe he's far from elite.  And I feel the same about WJIII.  He's too inconsistent.  From both in his career, and from game to game.  He's very good in man, but leaves a lot to be desired in zone.

IMHO, the market for corners is incredibly inflated.  Outside of the elite players, you have a jumbled up group of guys that sometimes flash and sometimes don't.  And they get grossly overpaid (See Dre Kirkpatricks old deal).

Invest into getting pressure on the QB and you can make average CB's look great.  Find a mid-level vet at 3-8 mil per to pair with Waynes.  Maybe look into bringing Mackenzie Alexander back too.  See if you can hit on someone in the draft in the mid rounds as well.  And save that cap space from a WJIII deal to use on OL/DL/LB.

(11-18-2020, 01:43 PM)Whatever Wrote: After this off-season, it's hard to say what the Bengals would do.  Before their spending spree in FA, I would agree that there's no chance they would pursue most of these guys.   I mean, for years people were saying they wouldn't spend a 1st on an IOL then they took Zeitler and Price.

Thuney would make sense from a need standpoint.  He's also a Centerville native and Mike loves his hometown heroes.  Plus, he has rings already.

Linsey is an interesting option.  C's are your best values on the OL in FA to start with.  On top of that, given the cap situation, there will be very few teams looking to throw big money at a top C.  Trey can also play G, so his contract isn't necessarily a waste if you get Linsey.  Plus, he's a Youngstown/OSU guy. 

The Bengals reportedly had interest in trading for Williams, so it would make sense if they pursued him in FA.  Jonah also played RT in college, so he is capable of making the switch.  

Villenueva is actually graded a little better than Jonah currently is.  He's also had some issues with the Steelers.  He had a public dispute and hold out over a contract extension.  He is also a military veteran and chose to go out and stand alone for the national anthem a couple of years ago while the rest of the team stayed in the locker room to protest.  

Spain has played well given the circumstances, but he has been far from great.  Plus, he's a FA next year.  He and XSF are guys we have the opportunity to upgrade over and should do so.  Joe likes to hold the ball to make big plays, so a mediocre OL will still result in a bunch of sacks, hits, and fumbles.  He needs a good/great line to be most effective.

(11-17-2020, 05:48 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Definitely in favor of letting WJIII walk.

Trae Waynes is due 16 million dollars next year. I'd imagine the market for WJIII will north of 10 mil. I would not feel at all comfortable with having around 30 million dollars locked up into those two corners.

I hope we didn't overpay for Waynes, but I do believe he's far from elite. And I feel the same about WJIII. He's too inconsistent. From both in his career, and from game to game. He's very good in man, but leaves a lot to be desired in zone.

IMHO, the market for corners is incredibly inflated. Outside of the elite players, you have a jumbled up group of guys that sometimes flash and sometimes don't. And they get grossly overpaid (See Dre Kirkpatricks old deal).

Invest into getting pressure on the QB and you can make average CB's look great. Find a mid-level vet at 3-8 mil per to pair with Waynes. Maybe look into bringing Mackenzie Alexander back too. See if you can hit on someone in the draft in the mid rounds as well. And save that cap space from a WJIII deal to use on OL/DL/LB.

(11-18-2020, 10:38 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I think the pass rushers are so bad that I'd actually re-sign Lawson, draft 2 more, and probably look to sign a veteran on a cheaper contract like Derek Wolfe who can play DT and DE.

(11-18-2020, 05:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Agree. Lawson and Hubbard are decent but no one else gets any pressure besides maybe Covington at DT.

(11-17-2020, 09:16 AM)corpjet Wrote: I believe last I counted we had 21 or so free agents, the bigger names included are:

1.  Fat Randy
2.  Josh Bynes
3.  Mike Daniels
4.  AJ Green
5.  Kevin Huber
6.  Carl Lawson
7.  WJIII
8.  John Ross
9.  Mike THomas
10.  Brandon Wilson
11. Clark Harris
12.  Alex Erickson
13.  Jordan Evans

(11-18-2020, 05:52 PM)kalibengal Wrote: Huber, Lawson, Harris and Wilson
the rest can go...yes WJIII can go too...we need more physicality at that position. 

(11-18-2020, 05:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Perhaps I was looking in wrong spot before, but pro-football-reference now lists QB Hits, knockdowns, and hurries under advanced defense.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/2020_advanced.htm

Here are those stats for the Bengals:
Lawson - 3.5 sacks, 9 hurries, 13 knockdowns = 26 total pressures
Hubbard - 1.0 sack, 4 hurries, 1 knockdown = 6 total pressures
ADG - 0.5 sack, 3 hurries, 0 knockdowns = 4 total pressures
Covington - 0 sacks, 4 hurries, 0 knockdowns = 4 total pressures
Bell - 0 sacks, 0 hurries, 3 knockdowns = 3 total pressures
Wilson - 2 pressures
Reader - 2 pressures
Bynes, Evans, Xavier Williams, Alexander, Kareem, Bledsoe - 1 pressure each
Atkins, Pratt - 0 pressures

Dunlap also had 7 total pressures at the time of his departure, which would put him 2nd on the team.

(11-19-2020, 05:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thanks, looks like in the mean time we need to blitz ADG, Bell and Wilson more until we can add more to the End position.

Hubbard has been hurt, I would say this is the only reason he doesn't have more pressures.

(11-19-2020, 05:09 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Hubbard has been in 6 games.
That's an average of 1 pressure per game.
That's still low.

His pressures the previous two years:
2018 - 13
2019 - 19

Hubbard is a solid player, but he's really not a big pass rushing threat when looking across the league.