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RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - Murdock2420 - 08-03-2021
(08-03-2021, 01:46 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Is it too much to hope for Columbia, South Carolina? Gah that city sucks.
Charlotte, NC is a nice city though (Oh yeah the Panthers are from there. I'm SoL for them to ever end up closer than they are now)
I did see one list with Orlando and Richmond VA on it.
I also didn't have Austin on my top 10 and they are the city looking at the Bills.
RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - J24 - 08-03-2021
(08-03-2021, 01:47 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I'm not sure why anyone thinks Mike is loyal to Cincinnati.The Mike defenders act like he is the only owner ever that would keep the team in Cincinnati because the market is so terrible. Neither are true though.
He's actions in 1995 as you said, spoke loudly about how little he cared and more importantly, if the dude had a shred of dignity or a shred of concern about this city and the fans, he'd have made changes to the front office and efforts to field a winning team decades ago.
He is loyal is money, and as he has stated before if not for Elizabeth "pushing him" there wouldn't be a Ring of Honor coming. That doesn't look like a guy loyal to the fans or the city at all. That's a guy that wants to make $$$ and if the NFL gives him a bonus check to move to a new market like Mexico, London or Canada, I don't think he turns it down. His kids might, his grand-daughter might, be Mike... I don't see any loyality from him.
(08-03-2021, 01:48 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I did see one list with Orlando and Richmond VA on it.Toronto is the only City that would be tantalizing to move to.
I also didn't have Austin on my top 10 and they are the city looking at the Bills.
RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - grampahol - 08-03-2021
(08-03-2021, 01:35 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I don't live in Cincinnati so it's not a big deal to me. If they were to move I would only hope it would be close to South Carolina. What are the major markets they could potentially move to?
If I had to guess Florida would be the closest state to me that would probably be able to take a team.
There's always the thriving metropolis of Columbia, about the size of Dayton..Charleston would probably bring in bigger crowds from the tourists.. LOL
RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - grampahol - 08-03-2021
(08-03-2021, 01:46 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Is it too much to hope for Columbia, South Carolina? Gah that city sucks.
Charlotte, NC is a nice city though (Oh yeah the Panthers are from there. I'm SoL for them to ever end up closer than they are now)
Columbia is about as ready for an NFL franchise as WallaWalla, Washington About the only thing Columbia would have going for it is proximity to MAYBE Clemson and Oh yeah..plenty of available land, but look at the Cowboys who when hard pressed for land just bulldozed over entire neighborhoods and kicked entire families to the curb.
I kind of like Columbia, but Charlotte? WAY too much shit traffic..
RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - Murdock2420 - 08-03-2021
(08-03-2021, 02:41 AM)J24 Wrote: The Mike defenders act like he is the only owner ever that would keep the team in Cincinnati because the market is so terrible. Neither are true though.
Toronto is the only City that would be tantalizing to move to.
I think the league would love to move a team to Mexico City or Toronto, a chance to really expand their reach. I also wouldn't rule out Montreal just for the location.
RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - BengalsBong - 08-03-2021
Nothing wrong with what we have now it still looks modern you can upgrade the seats to expand if you chose and I believe they said you can even make it into a dome if they wanted too.
Since Mike's granddaughter is not afraid of him maybe we will get a practice dome with climate control. So they do not have to work out in high temps and bitter cold. Snow games are a thing of the past in my eyes would rather not see a guy you pay tens of millions slipping and sliding if it happens to pile snow on your field the night before the game.
RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - kevin - 08-03-2021
(08-02-2021, 07:19 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Sadly I think the future of small media markets like Buffalo, Cincinnati and Jacksonville are facing intense $$ to move to larger and/or growing markets out there to move. So enjoy the Bengals the next few years as the lease agreement is up in 2026. We might see the Bills gone in a couple years... and trust me I am not advocating for it regardless how we play good or bad the next few years
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/bills-reportedly-eyeing-move
It's not Baseball. Baseball has a huge small market problem. However The NFL of TV Revenue sharing is a sweet deal for small market teams. Really, the NFL is set up for parity, so Mike Brown never having a play-off win in 30 years is amazingly bad. If Mike Brown and Family don't start winning, the Tax Payers should not buy them a new stadium. Let the Bengals go to St Louis, or San Diego, or Oakland. I say this because The USA through Covid has fell on hard economic times, and maybe it is time for these owners to build their own stadiums, not the tax payers. Something is wrong when we complain about the cost of schools, health care, elderly care, and yet blow tax money on sports arenas. The concept that they improve neighborhoods is over rated, if that were true The Bronx would be a Beverly Hills, and not a slum area around Yankee Stadium.
RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - dr tarzan - 08-03-2021
(08-03-2021, 01:46 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Is it too much to hope for Columbia, South Carolina? Gah that city sucks.
Charlotte, NC is a nice city though (Oh yeah the Panthers are from there. I'm SoL for them to ever end up closer than they are now)
Yeh, it is WAYYYY to much to hope for.
The only viable Southern Metropolises are Orlando, which would be a city that is surrounded by other fan bases that might inhibit a move; and Raleigh- Durham which is VERY viable. It is an area that is growing with the only competing fan base being Charlotte Washington Baltimore which are more distant than TB, Miami and Jax.
Of course that would be great for me.....Season tickets again. Hell, I used to drive to RDU just to get on a plane to Cincinnati for Sunday games.
RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - kevin - 08-03-2021
(08-03-2021, 05:56 AM)dr tarzan Wrote: Yeh, it is WAYYYY to much to hope for.
The only viable Southern Metropolises are Orlando, which would be a city that is surrounded by other fan bases that might inhibit a move; and Raleigh- Durham which is VERY viable. It is an area that is growing with the only competing fan base being Charlotte Washington Baltimore which are more distant than TB, Miami and Jax.
Of course that would be great for me.....Season tickets again. Hell, I used to drive to RDU just to get on a plane to Cincinnati for Sunday games.
How about the Mayberry-Mount Pilot Bengals. Preseason Game local commercials by Floyds Barber Shop, The Best Clip Joint In Town. Also Wally's Auto Service Station, where Gomer and Goober don't use a computer dialysis machine, but they sure use the soda pop machine. Preseason also brought to you from The Mayberry Diner, come in and see Millie and get The Barney Fife Blue Plate Special.
RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - CarolinaBengalFanGuy - 08-03-2021
(08-03-2021, 05:56 AM)dr tarzan Wrote: Yeh, it is WAYYYY to much to hope for.
The only viable Southern Metropolises are Orlando, which would be a city that is surrounded by other fan bases that might inhibit a move; and Raleigh- Durham which is VERY viable. It is an area that is growing with the only competing fan base being Charlotte Washington Baltimore which are more distant than TB, Miami and Jax.
Of course that would be great for me.....Season tickets again. Hell, I used to drive to RDU just to get on a plane to Cincinnati for Sunday games.
That's a bit far for me, but close enough to manage a game or 2 a season if it happened. Honestly I'm probably in the leave them alone spot (other than maybe moving to a destination attractive to free agents).
RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - kevin - 08-03-2021
(08-03-2021, 06:48 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: That's a bit far for me, but close enough to manage a game or 2 a season if it happened. Honestly I'm probably in the leave them alone spot (other than maybe moving to a destination attractive to free agents).
If the Bengals would leave Cincinnati, they would have the same following from the Cincinnati area that the Royals get as the Sacramento Kings. I can guarantee if Bengals move someday, it will not be to Carolina. St Louis, San Diego or Oakland probably. A Division of Baltimore, Pittsburg, Cleveland, St Louis would be very possible.
In the 1990's Mike Brown talked of moving to LA. LA said they would love an NFL Football Team, but Mike Brown is NOT an NFL Football Team. One of the big reasons Bengals stayed and did not move to LA, is because LA and Hollywood did not want The Mike Brown Family Bengals. So most cities would rather have a new expansion team start from the beginning than see Mike and Katey roll into their town. That may be the conditions of a city, that they welcome The NFL in as long as it is NOT Mike and Katey and Tobin. Most cities would not build a stadium for Them.
RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - SHRacerX - 08-03-2021
(08-02-2021, 07:19 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Sadly I think the future of small media markets like Buffalo, Cincinnati and Jacksonville are facing intense $$ to move to larger and/or growing markets out there to move. So enjoy the Bengals the next few years as the lease agreement is up in 2026. We might see the Bills gone in a couple years... and trust me I am not advocating for it regardless how we play good or bad the next few years
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/bills-reportedly-eyeing-move
Columbus is one of the largest cities in the country, and still growing. There is some crazy stat I heard at a Nationwide Children's Medical Conference that Columbus is within 6 hours of something like 75% of the nation's population (although that doesn't seem realistic).
The one scenario I could see is Columbus as that city could probably build the stadium and still be close enough to Cincy that it wouldn't cause too much of an uproar.
That being said, I sure as hell hope it doesn't happen. FWIW, I don't think the Brown family will move the team. This is the family that turns down significant money for naming rights to the stadium to remain named in honor of the team's founder. If it were a big corporate type ownership, I think they would move. This might be one of the only times being a mom-and-pop organization favors the team.
RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - Wes Mantooth - 08-03-2021
I read about that Bills story yesterday. It's all posturing.
They interviewed people in Austin who said they had no clue about any plans or any want for an NFL team. The idea that the city was willing to publicly fund a stadium was news to them.
Another very important thing... Guess whose company is helping the Bills secure a new stadium deal? Jerry Jones. Guess what owner would never allow a new franchise within 300 miles from his if he could help it? Jerry Jones. There's not a chance Jerry Jones wants another team that is under 200 miles and under 2 hours away from his cash cow.
All of this is just a ploy by the Bills to get funding from Buffalo. The owner of team also owns the Sabres (NHL) who are there, and are in need their own update and upgrades. You think he's willing to move two teams away from one city? Not likely. You think he's willing to be move one of those two teams, angering the fanbase, then trying to operate the other franchise there? Not a freaking chance.
They're going to put pressure the city, and they're going to demand 100% of the cost be paid. In they end, they'll end up setting for some type of split (Ex: 50/50) between public and private funding and everyone will realize this is nothing more typical negotiation.
The Bills are going nowhere.
RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - Sled21 - 08-03-2021
(08-03-2021, 01:43 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Trying, I don't think anyone is actively trying but there is a lengthy list of cities that are interested in an explansion team or getting one to relocate.
They include:
1) Mexico City, Mexico
2) Salt Lake City, UT
3) Oklahoma City, OK
4) Portland, OR
5) Omaha, NE
6) San Antonio, TX
7) Toronto, Canada
8) Montreal, Canada
9) London, England
10) Honolulu, Hawaii
That's the top 10 cities that have been linked in the past few years to wanting teams and that list doesn't include cities that had a team and lost it and are willing to get one back like:
St. Louis, MO
Oakland, CA
San Diego, CA
I'm not saying that the Bengals will move, but don't think for one second that there wouldn't be a long list of cities ready to jump at having an NFL team. And don't put it past the NFL to try and expand into new markets like Mexico or Canada if they get a chance to move a franchise.
You can cross any foreign country, except maybe Canada, off that list. Mexico City is not safe, and both London and Hawaii are too far away for teams to play there regularly. An East coast team flying to Hawaii has at least a 12 hour flight. Not going to happen. As far as cities, Louisville is the largest city in the nation that does not have a top tier team in any sport. We have AAA baseball (Reds affiliate), a soccer club, and college football and basketball. So, as unlikely as it is, I could see them pushing for a team. But, I don't see the Brown's moving the team, they are entrenched in Ohio, and where they are at in Cincy they pull from Ohio and Kentucky.
RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - Wes Mantooth - 08-03-2021
The idea that Cincinnati is a terribly small market size in terms of television simply isn't true.
The networks and the NFL uses a radius that extends far beyond the city limits to calculate this. You can't just look at the city's population to say we're "small market". Our actual market size is over 4 times the size of the City of Cincinnati. It brings in viewers all the from Lexington to Dayton and Columbus, and it extends to Indiana.
Another thing to consider is the amount of households in a given market who tune into the games. I wish I could find the links to support this, but Cincinnati often ranks #1 in percentage of households tuning into the games. You can see this on display not only for the Bengals but even for a team like the Bearcats. There's been numerous articles written recently about conference expansion, which included television details. The amount of people tuning into UC games vs. the population here is incredibly high compared to other potential schools looking to move conferences.
Put very simply: Imagine Cincinnati's market size being 2 million, which is obviously not near the top. And imagine Los Angeles market size being over 5 million which is near the top. If you take just those two figures it looks like we're in big, big trouble. Now imagine 50% of households in Cincinnati tuning into the game whereas only 25% of Los Angeles does. That changes things a bit.
(Note: I pulled these numbers from my head; they're not meant to be accurate. It's just as an example.)
The truth is, while Cincinnati's market size isn't huge it's also not at the very bottom either. There's a number of teams below us. And it's also true that our households routinely outpace most of the league in percentage of viewership. When you couple these two things together, if market size and ratings are driving teams to move then the NFL is going to pressure a number of teams before they pressure us.
tldr; The idea that the NFL is pressuring teams like Cincinnati to move is ridiculous. If for some reason the Bengals did move it would have to be for something else. Market size would not drive this.
RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - Wes Mantooth - 08-03-2021
Cincinnati had the 3rd most viewers for the 2020 NFL Draft:
https://local12.com/sports/bengals/cincinnati-was-no-3-market-nationally-in-terms-of-viewership-for-nfl-drafts-first-round-ohio-nielsen-roger-goodell-joe-burrow-bengals-columbus-cleveland
Cincinnati has the 2nd higest local rating for Monday Night Football last year (look at the ratings for big markets like DC and Philly):
https://espnpressroom.com/us/press-releases/2020/12/high-five-steelers-bengals-drives-espns-monday-night-football-to-15-year-over-year-audience-growth-fifth-consecutive-week-of-mnf-viewership-gains/
These are just examples of what I was talking about earlier. Viewership, also known as ratings, is incredibly important. Advertisers care more about this than they do market size. Both of them matter.
Cincinnati is a great market for the NFL to be in. And if you're going off of market size alone, then I would assume they'll be looking to move the Chiefs, Steelers, and Colts as well.
RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - Wes Mantooth - 08-03-2021
Rank Team(s) Pop. in TV Households (000s) Media Market(s)
1) New York Giants / Jets 22421 New York, Hartford-New Haven1 , Wilkes-Barre--Scranton
2) Oakland Raiders / San Francisco 49ers 10645 San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose, Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto, Monterey-Salinas
3) Chicago Bears 10606 Chicago, South Bend-Elkhart, Rockford
4) New England Patriots 9684 Boston (Manchester), Hartford-New Haven1 , Providence-New Bedford, Springfield-Holyoke
5) Philadelphia Eagles 8688 Philadelphia, Harrisburg-Lancaster-Lebanon-York2
6) Carolina Panthers 8152 Charlotte, Greenville-Spartanburg-Asheville-Anderson, Greensboro--High Point--Wiston-Salem, Columbia
7) Dallas Cowboys 8071 Dallas-Fort Worth, Waco-Temple-Bryan, Sherman-Ada
8) Detroit Lions 8032 Detroit, Flint-Saginaw-Bay City, Toledo, Lansing, Windsor
9) Atlanta Falcons 6462 Atlanta, Macon
10) Houston Texans 6452 Houston, Beaumont-Port Arthur
11) Washington Redskins 5853 Washington (Hagerstown)
12) Miami Dolphins 5722 Miami-Fort Lauderdale, West Palm Beach-Fort Pierce
13) Minnesota Vikings 5073 Minneapolis-Saint Paul, Rochester-Mason City-Austin, Mankato
14) Cleveland Browns 4794 Cleveland-Akron (Canton), Youngstown
15) Denver Broncos 4727 Denver, Colorado Springs-Pueblo
16) Cincinnati Bengals 4666 Cincinnati, Dayton, Lexington
17) Seattle Seahawks4 4565 Seattle-Tacoma
18) Arizona Cardinals 4438 Phoenix (Prescott)
19) Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4417 Tampa-Saint Petersburg (Sarasota), Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne3
20) Pittsburgh Steelers 4396 Pittsburgh, Johnstown-Altoona-State College, Wheeling-Steubenville, Clarksburg-Weston
21) Baltimore Ravens 4248 Baltimore, Harrisburg-Lancaster-Lebanon-York2 , Salisbury
22) Green Bay Packers5 4186 Milwaukee, Green Bay-Appleton, Madison
23) Saint Louis Rams 3986 Saint Louis, Champaign-Springfield-Decatur
24) Jacksonville Jaguars 3660 Jacksonville, Gainesville, Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne3
25) Indianapolis Colts 3266 Indianapolis, Terre Haute, Lafayette
26) Buffalo Bills6 2990 Buffalo, Rochester, Erie
27) Kansas City Chiefs 2903 Kansas City, Topeka, Saint Joseph
28) San Diego Chargers 2683 San Diego7
29) Tennessee Titans 2667 Nashville, Bowling Green
30) New Orleans Saints 2635 New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Biloxi-Gulfport
RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - WeezyBengal - 08-03-2021
(08-02-2021, 07:25 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: You know that I am concerned about the new lease agreement with the Bengals. Especially since soccer just built a new stadium and seems to be the trend in Cincinnati. I can see Mike Brown looking for a new city that will build a new stadium. At least he will probably threaten it to see what Hamilton County would do to counter.
If you think FC Cincinnati and MLS teams are taking fans away from NFL teams like the Bengals you are sorely mistaken.
RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - Whatever - 08-03-2021
(08-03-2021, 01:09 AM)J24 Wrote: It doesn't matter do honestly think the NFL and an Ownership group would want to go through a tough drawn out court case that would cost them major money and would be tied up in ligation. Just to move to some average size market like San Antonio or Austin? Look at what Happened with the crew.
The Crew sold for $150 million. The Bengals are worth $2 billion. Very different situations.
Most NFL teams are still getting tax money for stadiums. The NFL will fight tooth and nail a law that allows a city the power to force a team to stay and most of it's teams to lose bargaining power. If they allow that precedent to be set in Ohio, then other states may try to follow suit with similar laws.
Not to mention that prolonged legal battles are costly for both sides. Who's better equipped to fight them, the NFL or the city of Cincinnati?
There are also numerous ways the Art Modell law can be circumvented without going to court. It requires a team to play at least half it's home games in a stadium funded with tax dollars. When the PBS lease expires, the Bengals have no legal obligation to play games in PBS. They can can cut a deal to play in a location outside of Ohio without technically moving, like sharing Lucas Oil with the Colts for a year, then move. Or they could just tell the league they want 5 of their home games to be in London during the final year of the PBS lease.
RE: Enjoy the Bengals while it lasts - SladeX - 08-03-2021
Couple things
Been demonstrated recently that Mike's deal is stubbornness above all. Money plays into things, obviously, but that recent article was illuminating as to his motivation. From rings of honor to FA, to practice fields to scouts, it's all about his stubbornness. Hopefully he's stubborn about staying in Cincinnati.
Wes' list is interesting. I know a lot of people forget about dayton and Lexington impact. If we start a better culture, would Columbus be on that list as well?
*LA not on it.
*Wonder where OKC/Tulsa fit.
*KC should include Springfield and Fayetteville/Rogers/Springdale
*Ft. Wayne carried the Tigers when I was a kid, should they be included in Lions?