(08-04-2021, 10:48 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Idek what to make of ZT. He comes from the mcvay tree, and wants to implement that offense here.

Thing is, those Mcvay teams have good lines and are able to run it down people’s faces.

Zac can’t get that going here with this o-line personnel.

I don’t think zac can progress properly with a hamstrung offense.

I think of young or first time head coaches like young qb’s

like how some qb’s never develop properly due to bad o-lines (David carr for example)

I get the disdain for him though. I guess

(08-04-2021, 10:54 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: funny that you want to blame the coach but not the QB that never played in the NFL either.. rarely is is one only and not both.. and with  a QB that has no track record in the NFL, I find it hard to totally blame the coach.. 

(08-04-2021, 10:56 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I know that shit happens, but lordy...the fact that ZT started off his career here by going 0-11 and immediately breaking our franchise losing streak record was hardly starting things off on the right foot.

The guy came into a franchise with a fan base that had just sat through three boring ass 6/7/6-win years with Marvin at the helm.  We were ready to celebrate if ZT could find his ass with both hands and so far he hasn't shown that he can.  Granted, his first two years were bad for different reasons, but they were really really bad.  I just don't feel like going into 2022 saying that 2021 didn't count because Burrow wasn't 100% and ZT is totally going to figure it out in 2022, just you watch.

(08-04-2021, 11:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This NEEDS to be Zac's make or break year. He has his team now. I am going to give him a chance this year, we will see.

We cannot waste Joe Burrow or this roster's careers, that is all.

Still stand by the roster was shit when ZT got here especially the trenches on both sides of the ball. I think we are better now here.

Now we can judge fairly.

(08-04-2021, 10:54 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: funny that you want to blame the coach but not the QB that never played in the NFL either.. rarely is is one only and not both.. and with  a QB that has no track record in the NFL, I find it hard to totally blame the coach.. 

(08-04-2021, 11:05 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Even if Burrow is a bust ZT still managed to go 2-14 with a QB and team that Marvin "I also can't believe I'm still here" Lewis could get 6+ wins out of.  ZT was setting Bengals records for losing when Joe Burrow was still an unknown late-round prospect.  

Even if Burrow falls flat on his face in 2021, ZT still has a 1 year heard start of sucking on him, so it's going to be hard to NOT blame it on ZT.  Plus, if he flames out here his odds of getting a job as a HC elsewhere are Dave Shula-levels of nonexistent.  But I'll leave the option open that the planets align this year and ZT gets it all together.

(08-04-2021, 11:05 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I really wish I could say if Taylor is good or bad, but I don’t even know.

(08-04-2021, 11:08 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So it's ok to suck 2 years Burrow but not 3 ZT ..lol

(08-04-2021, 11:05 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Eh

He’s still working with an overall bad roster.

Andy Reid would struggle with this o-line

I really wish I could say if Taylor is good or bad, but I don’t even know.

(08-04-2021, 11:12 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yes, sort of.  We've seen ZT come in last place without Burrow, so until Burrow comes in last place without ZT, ZT will always be in the lead of the "race to suck" so to speak.

(08-04-2021, 11:22 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: When you the 1 consensus pick you also are expected to raise the bar. So Burrow should share blame, Dalton 2nd round pick took over a bad team left behind by Palmer with Lewis still as coach and went on a 5 yr playoff run, you blame both HC and QB

(08-04-2021, 11:41 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: There is plenty of blame to go around; that’s for sure.  It takes an entire roster to stink up the Western Hemisphere like the Bengals have done over the past two seasons.  No one or even two people can create such an abysmal stinking dung heap of despair.  It truly takes a village to lose that many games.

I understand your points perfectly but the Joe Burrow vs. Andy Dalton debate isn’t the main event. It’s not even worthy of undercard status to use a boxing analogy.

The big debate, I believe, is Zac Taylor vs. Marvin Lewis.  While Marvin might have underachieved, Zac actually needs to improve to be considered an underachiever.  He’s that bad.  Zac won two games with Andy Dalton and two games with Joe Burrow and that tells me everything I need to know.

(08-04-2021, 10:56 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Here we go

Essex getting ready to hop on the “Burrow really isn’t that good” train

Choo choo!

(08-04-2021, 02:06 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Joe was 24th in average passer rating 89.8. This is right above Dalton. Guys ahead of him include Phillip Rivers, Kirk Cousins, and Baker Mayfield.

Joe was 21st in completion percentage.

Joe threw the ball a ton last year (40 times a game). This would have been second in the league behind the Steelers and he only had more than 300 yards passing 5 times.

This was my first time really looking at his stats from last year. I know his offensive line was dog shit and he was a rookie last year, but man I was expecting his numbers to be better than that.

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is, but I'm just lowering my expectations of what to expect from him this year after reading those stats, hearing about how he looks in camp so far, and especially early on coming back from injury.

What are your guys' thoughts on his numbers from last year?

(08-05-2021, 08:04 PM)motoarch Wrote: I can't believe we're comparing Dalton and Burrow.

I was a Dalton supporter.  Not because he was great but because he was good enough with a really good supporting cast.  Take that away and he was just serviceable, smart and wasn't going to make too many mistakes.

He wasn't great.

I don't care what the stats say between the 2 and how many games Dalton won and how many times he made it to the playoffs.  He never looked 'special'.

Burrow is special and anyone that watched him play knows it.

No he didn't win many games but it sure as hell wasn't his fault.  He carried the team on his back and balled hard than anyone on the field and his cast let him down over and over.

He tried to will his way to a win week after week and it felt like the rest of the team was just watching rather than participating sometimes.  It never felt that way with Dalton.  He never seemed like his game elevated above the play around him, he's was just there.

I hope that changes this year.

(08-05-2021, 08:04 PM)motoarch Wrote: I was a Dalton supporter.  Not because he was great but because he was good enough with a really good supporting cast.  Take that away and he was just serviceable,