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+--- Thread: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? (/thread-31219.html)
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - J24 - 02-14-2022
(02-14-2022, 05:44 PM)Nately120 Wrote: We must be a lot closer to the cap than I think we are if we are talking about making room and sacrifices elsewhere to bring in o-line help.
Cap Space goes quickly.
We have the 4th most Cap space right now with 57 Million but we have to factor in Resigning our on players like Bates, Hill, UZ, Spain, and Rieff + we have to keep at least 15 million in cap space for draft picks and injury replacements (FYI there is a good argument that is a BS thing Hopson wrote)
Now the good news is we can cut Wayne's, B.Wilson, and Hopkins That will get us over 70 million.
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - pally - 02-14-2022
(02-14-2022, 05:49 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Actually moving Joe after June 1 (only $2.7 in dead money) is totally different situation than before June 1 ($8.2)
Making moves with Boyd, Mixon, Hopkins, Waynes and not resigning Bates puts us in a situation of affording 4 very solid linemen.
We can replace the slot & RB, with athletes Waynes is gone already, Hopkins is being replaced....
Imagine Joe getting 3 seconds every pass play, imagine not being concerned about goal line, 3rd or 4th and short... we ahve 2 super stars on the outside stretching the defense.... tough biz decisions... I'd do them.
imagine not being able to get the opposing offense off the field because the Bengals spent all the money on offense. 5 out of 8 CBs are free agents and 2 out of 5 safeties. 1 starter and 2 key backups on the DL as well. It has to be a balance. We need the OL not to be awful. An elite one is likely out of the reach financially
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - casear2727 - 02-14-2022
(02-14-2022, 05:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If you wait until after June 1 to move on from Mixon, you've missed the key FA signing window already.
You're not likely getting some great FA in post-June 1 with that money saved. Instead, you're likely just to carry that into 2023 or use for extension.
Possibly, but teams must be under the cap on June 2nd, so what if we sign FA's and are over the cap on June 1 but cut Mixon on June 2nd resulting us being under the cap and only his signing bonus is left to pay? Not that we would ever come that close.
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - casear2727 - 02-14-2022
(02-14-2022, 06:00 PM)pally Wrote: imagine not being able to get the opposing offense off the field because the Bengals spent all the money on offense. 5 out of 8 CBs are free agents and 2 out of 5 safeties. 1 starter and 2 key backups on the DL as well. It has to be a balance. We need the OL not to be awful. An elite one is likely out of the reach financially
I am only discussing moves on offense to fix offense. We must maintain the defense without a doubt, very good point.
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - tms - 02-14-2022
Honestly, I think the Bengals are in such a ridiculously unique position with three key pieces on rookie deals that they needn't sacrifice much. It's not a zero-sum game for them right now. They are getting +value from more than a few guys, which gives them a window in which to create a whole greater than the sum of the parts.
For sure, they'll need to make in investment in the OL. I'd say two stud vets and a third starter. They should have the flex for that. Then draft and develop from there. It doesn't necessitate letting JB30 walk either, or even CJ. For the next two years they can all fit. By worrying about the long-term implications we're putting the cart before the horse. I say we cross that bridge when we get there.
But if I had to pick one, I guess I'd be less worried about the DBs. We picked Apple, Flowers and Allen off the street. Chido was an underrated FA. Lou seems to know whose skills fit his scheme and how to find diamonds in the rough. At the same time, I don't see Bates as disposable at all. Not just because we don't need to, but also because he's such unique weapon. His range and discipline are second to none, he's a reliable tackler and durable af. Not to mention his leadership is a bonus. He's such an awesome CF that gives us flexibility to show different looks, experiment with new ideas and confuse offenses. I hope we don't lose him.
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - RunKijanaRun - 02-14-2022
1. Missionary
2. Doggy style
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - ochocincos - 02-14-2022
(02-14-2022, 06:04 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Possibly, but teams must be under the cap on June 2nd, so what if we sign FA's and are over the cap on June 1 but cut Mixon on June 2nd resulting us being under the cap and only his signing bonus is left to pay? Not that we would ever come that close.
Maybe I've been incorrect this whole time, but I thought teams always had to be under the cap even before June 1, as the cap only factors in the Top 51 contracts.
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - ochocincos - 02-14-2022
(02-14-2022, 06:00 PM)J24 Wrote: Cap Space goes quickly.
We have the 4th most Cap space right now with 57 Million but we have to factor in Resigning our on players like Bates, Hill, UZ, Spain, and Rieff + we have to keep at least 15 million in cap space for draft picks and injury replacements (FYI there is a good argument that is a BS thing Hopson wrote)
Now the good news is we can cut Wayne's, B.Wilson, and Hopkins That will get us over 70 million.
I dunno if I'd bother cutting Brandon Wilson. He'd only save $2 mill.
He's also a really good KR.
I'd rather cut Perine, who would free up $1.5 mill and leaves a lot to be desired as the RB2.
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - ochocincos - 02-14-2022
(02-14-2022, 05:59 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Waynes being the highest paid player on the team really does make you sick.
It does. And the fact he really doesn't even play after coming back from injury is just that much more frustrating.
Only 243 snaps all season, none last year.
All while pocketing $30.8 mill so far.
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - Webbtown - 02-14-2022
I actually think it more realistic to pick up a impact corner at the end of round one than a offensive lineman.
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - Joelist - 02-14-2022
The correct order of operations is you sign Free Agents then do cuts to get back under the cap if needed.
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - ochocincos - 02-14-2022
(02-14-2022, 06:00 PM)pally Wrote: imagine not being able to get the opposing offense off the field because the Bengals spent all the money on offense. 5 out of 8 CBs are free agents and 2 out of 5 safeties. 1 starter and 2 key backups on the DL as well. It has to be a balance. We need the OL not to be awful. An elite one is likely out of the reach financially
And that's the problem with the cap.
Look at all the roster spots you're having to re-sign/replace:
Reiff
Spain
XSF
Fred Johnson (RFA)
Uzomah
Tate
Thomas
Taylor
Brandon Allen
Ricardo Allen
Bates
Apple
Phillips
Flowers
Hargreaves
Jordan Evans
Hill
Ogunjobi
Tupou
Wilcox
Huber
Harris
22 players just right there. Then you can add cut candidates like Waynes, Hopkins, Boyd, Perine, Wilson, etc.
The above veterans ended up costing only $36.3 mill in 2021, but the Bengals had huge discounts on Bates, Hill, Spain, and Apple (all $1.25 mill or less). Ogunjobi was also somewhat of a discount at $6.2 mill.
I expect every single one of those players to command $4+ mill after their 2021 performances.
Bengals aren't going to be able to just re-sign all of their big guys plus still get 2-3 outside starter upgrades in FA.
Some of the needs may have to come in the draft or go with some cheaper FAs that people may not be as excited about.
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - Webbtown - 02-14-2022
They have to try to make the math work in free agency. Bates, Hill, and Uzomah will get there money. Apple and Spain will be back on a team deals. Bringing in a upgrade on the right side of the line is a must.
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - ochocincos - 02-14-2022
(02-14-2022, 06:08 PM)tms Wrote: Honestly, I think the Bengals are in such a ridiculously unique position with three key pieces on rookie deals that they needn't sacrifice much. It's not a zero-sum game for them right now. They are getting +value from more than a few guys, which gives them a window in which to create a whole greater than the sum of the parts.
For sure, they'll need to make in investment in the OL. I'd say two stud vets and a third starter. They should have the flex for that. Then draft and develop from there. It doesn't necessitate letting JB30 walk either, or even CJ. For the next two years they can all fit. By worrying about the long-term implications we're putting the cart before the horse. I say we cross that bridge when we get there.
But if I had to pick one, I guess I'd be less worried about the DBs. We picked Apple, Flowers and Allen off the street. Chido was an underrated FA. Lou seems to know whose skills fit his scheme and how to find diamonds in the rough. At the same time, I don't see Bates as disposable at all. Not just because we don't need to, but also because he's such unique weapon. His range and discipline are second to none, he's a reliable tackler and durable af. Not to mention his leadership is a bonus. He's such an awesome CF that gives us flexibility to show different looks, experiment with new ideas and confuse offenses. I hope we don't lose him.
DBs are definitely Anarumo's wheelhouse, as he was a former DB coach.
He has been able to find some underrated players, but I don't think anyone was actually that excited for Apple, Flowers, Allen, or even Awuzie when they were brought in.
He might find some more players who are higher value than their bargain bin price, but fans might not have confidence in those bargain bin players right away.
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - Bengals-Man12345 - 02-14-2022
(02-14-2022, 05:10 PM)ochocincos Wrote: We all know (and have known for years) that the OL needs upgraded.TE- I think Uzomah is worth about 5 mill don't yall think?
I think we can all agree that ideally we'd like for the OL to get upgraded with proven vet FAs.
With that said, the Bengals don't have unlimited cap and don't really ever do restructures.
They have the following non-OL positions with a starter either hitting FA or just flat out needing upgraded:
- TE
- CB
- S
- DT
So what position(s) are you ok with allowing to be addressed with cheaper FAs (under $5 mill) and/or draft picks so that the team can better address OL in the draft?
CB- We are known for drafting high round CB's (Hall, Joesph, Jackson, Denard, Kirk,) so I think that's a route we could possibly go especially if we hit on some FA OL.
S- We want to be a perennial playoff team. Well in the playoffs this year en route to a super bowl Bates played extremely well. I think you would have to pay him.
DT- Either Hill or Ogenjobi can be signed for decent contracts. Maybe even both. Draft whatever DT is in the 4th round. Hehe.
Getting rid of Wayne's contract will really help.
What really hurts my heart though is that Boyd might not be worth his contract on the current iteration of the bengals.
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 02-14-2022
I would prefer we address the OL in Free Agency with proven players, then Draft a CB early and keep building up the
trenches on both sides, bring back Spain, BJ Hill and add some guys like James Daniels, Scherff, Armstead, Moses etc.
I voted CB cause I think we should just cut Waynes and address Corner early in the Draft.
Too late with the RB position which would of been my other choice, need to bring back Uzo and maybe even add Gronk
if that is in the cards.
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - M.W. - 02-14-2022
(02-14-2022, 05:51 PM)Nately120 Wrote: We also have to keep roughly $1,000,000,000 free so we can extend Burrow.
If he isn't crippled in a few years.
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - Nately120 - 02-14-2022
(02-14-2022, 08:43 PM)M.W. Wrote: If he isn't crippled in a few years.
It'll be a billion dollar settlement, then.
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - THE PISTONS - 02-14-2022
Trai Turner graded out at 69.4. Would have been a good addition at Guard.
RE: What positions would you sacrifice for better OL? - samhain - 02-15-2022
I hate it, but to me the toughest questions are Bates and Uzomah. Bates is arguably the most important player on the defense and has the ability to man single high as well as anyone in the league. H's role is unquestioned and his play has been on a level that makes him incredibly expensive. I've seen projections as high as 17 mil, which to me is getting a little crazy. 12-13? That's easier to digest, but still a lot.
Uzomah is a guy that everyone loves and is a clear leader on the team. He's also a solid pass catcher and blocker. He's not quite a top tier tight end, though.
My issue with giving Uzomah 6-7 mil per over 3-4 more years is not easy for me to want to believe. Unfortunately, he's probably this team's 5th offensive option behind a no doubt number 1 receiver, a borderline number 1 receiver right behind him, a top end slot guy, and a very good running back. Is that role worth that kind of investment? Does the team lose anything that would cripple that loaded of an offense if he's no longer on the team? I hate saying it, but I don't think it does. I don't see him bringing 7 mil worth of value compared to what investing that amount in capable OL would. This is a tough decision, but I assure fellow fans that even tougher ones loom in the coming years. Leadership and culture standard bearers are important, but this team has an undeniable leader at the quarterback position.
I suppose the idea I'm coming around to is this: This offense was plenty potent this year. It was still pretty limited at times due to the substandard line play. We have a quarterback that thrives on taking advantage of developing long plays that was forced to unload the ball in a half second on Sunday. The game plans that protect him don't render him totally ineffective, but they definitely neuter the offensive play selection. The weakness up front is dictating game plans, and even when they try to ignore it as they did in the 2nd half Sunday, they are quickly reminded of why it's a dangerous idea.
When you look at what you might give up to buy time for the qb, you aren't just looking at preserving his health. You're talking about unleashing aspects of an offense and core of young talent that we haven't yet in the best case scenario. The losses you sustain in free agency should be more than accounted for when the offense can actually cash in on plays like the Chase jailbreak route on the final drive of the 4th quarter Sunday. How many more of those are we missing out on?