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RE: How do extensions work? - casear2727 - 02-01-2023
(02-01-2023, 03:53 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It's going to be hard to keep Tee here since we're going to be bidding to keep him as our WR2 when other teams are going to be bidding to make him a WR1. Just a hunch.
I'm no NFL salary guru, but wouldn't a franchise tag entitle him to make something like top 3 WR money? Using the franchise tag on a WR2 seems like it would be cost prohibitive. The franchise tag for a WR this year was just north of $18 million.
Teams cannot bid on Tee until after next season though, so we do it now to avoid this problem.
RE: How do extensions work? - Housh - 02-01-2023
(02-01-2023, 03:59 PM)casear2727 Wrote: We would never sign any non-QB player to a second tag though.
Won’t say never but the WR tag next year could be like 30-35 M. Hill got 25 M per as the leagues best WR(obviously debatable) and the cap just went up, and Hill played well so he made it look good giving a WR big money.
RE: How do extensions work? - Nately120 - 02-01-2023
(02-01-2023, 04:09 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Teams cannot bid on Tee until after next season though, so we do it now to avoid this problem.
True, but he's got to know that he's going to be, barring disaster, a WR1 candidate as soon as he's available.
RE: How do extensions work? - casear2727 - 02-01-2023
(02-01-2023, 04:10 PM)Housh Wrote: Won’t say never but the WR tag next year could be like 30-35 M. Hill got 25 M per as the leagues best WR(obviously debatable) and the cap just went up, and Hill played well so he made it look good giving a WR big money.
The WR tag is only $18M no way it goes to 30-35 next season.
The 2nd tag is $32.4M today, what will it be in 3 years? No way a non-QB ever goes on 2nd tag on any team.
RE: How do extensions work? - casear2727 - 02-01-2023
(02-01-2023, 04:12 PM)Nately120 Wrote: True, but he's got to know that he's going to be, barring disaster, a WR1 candidate as soon as he's available.
I dont disagree... but offering him $70-80M over the next 4 years right now may be tough to turn down and wait another year.
Knowing Tee's disposition, he may be ok sharing with Chase... and staying with Burrow is a positive.
RE: How do extensions work? - Nately120 - 02-01-2023
(02-01-2023, 04:22 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I dont disagree... but offering him $70-80M over the next 4 years right now may be tough to turn down and wait another year.
Knowing Tee's disposition, he may be ok sharing with Chase... and staying with Burrow is a positive.
I know contracts don't always boil down to the final number, but that seems like WR1 money there. I would assume he'd take that, yes.
RE: How do extensions work? - casear2727 - 02-01-2023
(02-01-2023, 04:25 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I know contracts don't always boil down to the final number, but that seems like WR1 money there. I would assume he'd take that, yes.
It is Top 15-20 depending on the final number on a yearly average. I think Tee could be considered a Top15-20 WR...?
Chargers have 2 WRs in the Top 12.
RE: How do extensions work? - Essex Johnson - 02-01-2023
(02-01-2023, 01:19 PM)CincyWestside Wrote: So as the whole Bengals fandom knows by this point, Burrow and Higgins need to be extended this offseason.
I was wondering how extensions work exactly. Don't they kick in after their current contracts?
If that is the case, then couldn't we "extend" our 2020 draft class picks but still live with their rookie contracts for another year? That could free up some space this offseason to bring back Bates or Pratt on a front-loaded contract for a year or two.
Im not sure about Higgins.. Burrow and Chase yes.. i don;t think we can pay #1 $$ for both.. and Higgins deserves #1 $$
RE: How do extensions work? - Synric - 02-01-2023
(02-01-2023, 02:12 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The misconception is some fans don't understand how a lot of these long term contracts are written. They key is the upfront bonus teams can pay and then defer the bonus money over the life of the contract. This is why we see cap hits a lot less in the early years and higher in the latter years. The player cares about the guarantee as they means the team cares about the cash outlay and the cap hit (both have minimums to be met to stay in compliance). So it is not an easy to calculate a 5 year 100 million contract extension for 5 years by doing simple math of 100 million divided by 5 years = 20 million dollar cap hit each year.
A great resource is Spotrac. I like it as it has many years of date, shows team by team spend and cap hit (2 different things) and even projects the following year by division with an in depth analytics. For example, the Ravens have 28.8 million in cap space, but they do not have Jackson under contract. The problem the Ravens have is they can't simply extend him to lower their cap hit, they franchise him and they literally have to restructure contracts or cut someone as tag for QB's is 32.4 million in 2023 I believe.
Sorry, for the long post, I love discussing the cap.
You are absolutely correct the salary cap is easily manipulated and you didn't even mention a void year you can add onto the back of some not all contracts to spread out the cap hits a slightly bit more. Thry can also do things that fans would hate like roll over 8mil this year and double that with 8 mil in 2024 to make the first big hit year of Burrows contract to be jsut a slight bit smaller part of the cap.
Although you forgot to mention the one detail that makes it difficult to front load all these huge contracts "The Guaranteed Money." What do you say the over under on 350mil of just guaranteed money the next two offseasons without extending Higgins? All that has to be liquid in escrow and that's alot.
RE: How do extensions work? - Truck_1_0_1_ - 02-01-2023
(02-01-2023, 04:22 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I dont disagree... but offering him $70-80M over the next 4 years right now may be tough to turn down and wait another year.
Knowing Tee's disposition, he may be ok sharing with Chase... and staying with Burrow is a positive.
Looking at the three of them, I always think about Harrison and Wayne: how did they do it with Manning?
That might be the blueprint on how to handle our 3.
RE: How do extensions work? - 007BengalsFan - 02-01-2023
Also worth noting on extending contracts, first round draft picks are unique in that teams can exercise a 5th year option and keep their first round draft picks an extra year. Teams need to do this before the start of the players 4th year. Last year the Bengals picked up the 5th year option on Jonah Williams. This year would be Burrow's 4th, next year will be Chase's. The Bengals can and almost certainly will pick up the 5th year option on both Burrow this year and Chase next year.
Tee being a second round pick doesnt quality for the 5th year option so this next season will be his last unless he signs a new contract.
RE: How do extensions work? - Housh - 02-01-2023
(02-01-2023, 04:19 PM)casear2727 Wrote: The WR tag is only $18M no way it goes to 30-35 next season.
The 2nd tag is $32.4M today, what will it be in 3 years? No way a non-QB ever goes on 2nd tag on any team.
Isn’t the tag whatever the highest paid player at that position got?
RE: How do extensions work? - 007BengalsFan - 02-01-2023
(02-01-2023, 06:28 PM)Housh Wrote: Isn’t the tag whatever the highest paid player at that position got?
It's the average salary of the top 5 players at that position.
RE: How do extensions work? - CKwi88 - 02-01-2023
I would be floored if we can keep Higgins and Burrow (and then Chase).
He saw what some teams were willing to pay for WR talent this offseason. 5 yr 95 million is very slightly more that what Christian Kirk got (4 yr/72 mil) on a per-year basis. Tee won't get Tyreek Hill money (4 yr 120 mil) but he knows he can get significantly more than Kirk.
RE: How do extensions work? - casear2727 - 02-01-2023
(02-01-2023, 06:28 PM)Housh Wrote: Isn’t the tag whatever the highest paid player at that position got?
(02-01-2023, 06:32 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: It's the average salary of the top 5 players at that position.
Depends on which tag is utilized:
Nonexclusive tag is the average of the top five cap hits at the position for the previous five years.
Exclusive franchise tag is the average of the top five cap numbers at the position when free agency is over.
RE: How do extensions work? - casear2727 - 02-01-2023
(02-01-2023, 06:37 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: I would be floored if we can keep Higgins and Burrow (and then Chase).
He saw what some teams were willing to pay for WR talent this offseason. 5 yr 95 million is very slightly more that what Christian Kirk got (4 yr/72 mil) on a per-year basis. Tee won't get Tyreek Hill money (4 yr 120 mil) but he knows he can get significantly more than Kirk.
But he wont get AJ Brown money either, 4 yr 100M.
So 4yr 80m - 5yr 95M is most likely in the ball park.
RE: How do extensions work? - Luvnit2 - 02-01-2023
(02-01-2023, 04:07 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I get what you are saying but dont understand a few items...
You said Tee is a 4M cap hit in 2023 which is correct: 3M salary and 1M signing bonus payment, but you have him as $1M and $10M bonus payment in 2023?
You said extend him for 5 years and you only listed 4 extension years.
2025 would be a $20M cap hit right?
Technically it is a 4 year extension, his last year 2023 is being. restructured. If you look at my example the bonus of 50 million + the salary of 45 million = 95 million. But, it is also not all guaranteed.
This is a less complex version of what you presented. Our OP hopefully now has a better idea of how the team can restructure deals. I looked at R. Smith LB of the Ravens and he has a lower cap hit in the early years of his deal, but then high cap numbers. I was shocked they redid his deal prior to doing Jackson's deal. The issue the Ravens have with Jackson is it will be hard to keep his cap number low in the early years and also he wants high guaranteed money.
RE: How do extensions work? - Goalpost - 02-01-2023
Spotrac puts Tee's value at 4 years/80million. Chase..they give two options...4 years/101 million or 6 years/131 million.
RE: How do extensions work? - Luvnit2 - 02-01-2023
(02-01-2023, 04:56 PM)Synric Wrote: You are absolutely correct the salary cap is easily manipulated and you didn't even mention a void year you can add onto the back of some not all contracts to spread out the cap hits a slightly bit more. Thry can also do things that fans would hate like roll over 8mil this year and double that with 8 mil in 2024 to make the first big hit year of Burrows contract to be jsut a slight bit smaller part of the cap.
Although you forgot to mention the one detail that makes it difficult to front load all these huge contracts "The Guaranteed Money." What do you say the over under on 350mil of just guaranteed money the next two offseasons without extending Higgins? All that has to be liquid in escrow and that's alot.
I did include the guarantee. Yes, anything guaranteed has to go into escrow which is another wrinkle in this complex way to "kick the can down the road" or assist in managing the cap.
Caesar mentioned using a roster bonus also which excludes the escrow criteria.
I just look at contracts other teams had issued, yes nothing is easy, but it is doable. Of course, the Brown family does not have the cash resources of the Hunt family for escrow, so yes that is an issue.