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+--- Thread: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine (/thread-35018.html)
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - Au165 - 02-28-2023
(02-28-2023, 08:52 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I think there’s going to be some disappointed people on here.
Not part of the Bengals organization, but one of the people I regularly talk to around the league believes it’s 50/50 he gets cut. It’s more based on if they need the money versus doing in proactively. If they need it he will be the domino that falls, they went as far as to say part of it will be based on how the FA market shapes up and if there is opportunity to better apply the dollars.
We will see, I would bet a large sum of money though he won’t be on the roster at that 12.7 million dollar cap number when the season starts.
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - Soonerpeace - 02-28-2023
(02-28-2023, 09:03 PM)Au165 Wrote: Not part of the Bengals organization, but one of the people I regularly talk to around the league believes it’s 50/50 he gets cut. It’s more based on if they need the money versus doing in proactively. If they need it he will be the domino that falls, they went as far as to say part of it will be based on how the FA market shapes up and if there is opportunity to better apply the dollars.
We will see, I would bet a large sum of money though he won’t be on the roster at that 12.7 million dollar cap number when the season starts.
He’s got to sacrifice for sure. I’ve not talked to anybody lately. This time of year things change fast. His support within the Blackburns is strong, Zac, and the team. We’ll see when push comes to shove.
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - Fan_in_Kettering - 02-28-2023
It’s going to take some smart financial management on behalf of the Front Office to keep Joe Burrow, Tee Higgins, Ja’Marr Chase, and other key players in Cincinnati for a long period of time. While I’m sure these outstanding players want to get paid they also understand the winning culture in Cincinnati and they want to keep it going.
Joe Mixon may indeed be expendable — and as much as I respect his running ability the team needs backs who can chip a linebacker or throw an effective block. That’s not Mixon.
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - Bilbo Saggins - 02-28-2023
Mixon doesn't fit the offense. There is no more bread and butter outside zone run under center for a change of pace. This team needs a starting back that can pass block, catch, and grind out consistent yardage.
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - Nately120 - 02-28-2023
(02-28-2023, 09:42 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: It’s going to take some smart financial management on behalf of the Front Office to keep Joe Burrow, Tee Higgins, Ja’Marr Chase, and other key players in Cincinnati for a long period of time. While I’m sure these outstanding players want to get paid they also understand the winning culture in Cincinnati and they want to keep it going.
Joe Mixon may indeed be expendable — and as much as I respect his running ability the team needs backs who can chip a linebacker or throw an effective block. That’s not Mixon.
Getting Mixon to take a team-first pay cut would be good practice for the next round of contracts.
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - Housh - 02-28-2023
(02-28-2023, 06:56 PM)Destro Wrote: Heard on XM Tobin saying they will spend to the cap.
No reason not to. Just give out 1-2 year deals
Don’t sign anything this off-season that has long term commitment unless it’s a guy like Jalen Ramsey.
Pretty simple
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - Housh - 02-28-2023
(02-28-2023, 09:52 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Mixon doesn't fit the offense. There is no more bread and butter outside zone run under center for a change of pace. This team needs a starting back that can pass block, catch, and grind out consistent yardage.
Leonard Fornette was just cut. His running style would be PERFECT.
Honestly I’d let Joe and Perine walk and get Fornette and then draft a back and that’d be an upgrade imo
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - samhain - 02-28-2023
(02-28-2023, 06:56 PM)Destro Wrote: Heard on XM Tobin saying they will spend to the cap.
I'm getting a little aroused.
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - J24 - 02-28-2023
(02-28-2023, 06:59 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It's possible they're doing the standard "we'd never trade him!" schtick to drive up the price. Trading Tee rather than watching him get beaucoup bucks from a desperate GM and then waiting to see what sort of comp pick the NFL sees fit to give us would be a "new dey" move, wouldn't it?It would be typical of the Bengals.
(02-28-2023, 07:23 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: and that's not a good move. We are a couple pieces away from winning a SB (OL depth).We have a top QB and the best WR in the game. Whoever plays with those guys is going to put up numbers. Maybe not as good as Tee but they still would eat.
If you can't extend Tee, then you let him play it out and tag him next year for trade bait. Odds of finding another "Tee" in the draft is very low.
Get that SB win first with all of your horses, then you can do whatever you need to.
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 - 02-28-2023
(02-28-2023, 07:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: I am not convinced you can't get a Tee deal done now at a reasonable deal to get him extended for 2 more years beyond this year. He is making bare bones this year, so if you are willing to bring him up to say 15 this year from his current rate then say 19 next which is close to this years tag number and say 21 the following year I think you can punt the decision for a while and see how it falls.
The benefit for Tee is he is making a lot more this year than he would playing his deal out, so it's essentially trading an extra 12 this year and then playing a bit under the next two but considering if we sit on him this year at 3 million it works out the same total comp wise over next 3. If you structured the guarantees heavily across all three years I bet you could get it done. Otherwise he plays this year on his deal, then gets tagged next and maybe in 3 years he finally gets paid. Money now is worth more than money later in the Not For Long league.
That is not how extensions work.
Tee's number this year is his number. It is not gonna change. Extension or not. Same with Wilson. Any extensions they do will kick in in 2024. Burrow's new deal won't kick 8n until 2025, as we will likely pick up that 5th year option (just like every other big QB extension).
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - phil413 - 03-01-2023
(02-28-2023, 07:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: I am not convinced you can't get a Tee deal done now at a reasonable deal to get him extended for 2 more years beyond this year. He is making bare bones this year, so if you are willing to bring him up to say 15 this year from his current rate then say 19 next which is close to this years tag number and say 21 the following year I think you can punt the decision for a while and see how it falls.
The benefit for Tee is he is making a lot more this year than he would playing his deal out, so it's essentially trading an extra 12 this year and then playing a bit under the next two but considering if we sit on him this year at 3 million it works out the same total comp wise over next 3. If you structured the guarantees heavily across all three years I bet you could get it done. Otherwise he plays this year on his deal, then gets tagged next and maybe in 3 years he finally gets paid. Money now is worth more than money later in the Not For Long league.
This is a really good idea, more of a baseball deal to get guaranteed money now vs arbitration (in this case the tag) . Tee's motivation would be to win here now and then cash out elsewhere when he's 27, as opposed to after next year's tag year to carry him to 31. The gamble of course is injury and Tee has been dinged up a bit recently, it has to be on his mind.
A 3 year deal really fits Cincy's window well. They can backload a Logan Wilson extension or another 4-5 year deal for a young player and front load a Reader 3 year deal. I really think they can sell Tee on this though it may be a higher overall number.
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - Au165 - 03-01-2023
(02-28-2023, 11:55 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: That is not how extensions work.
Tee's number this year is his number. It is not gonna change. Extension or not. Same with Wilson. Any extensions they do will kick in in 2024. Burrow's new deal won't kick 8n until 2025, as we will likely pick up that 5th year option (just like every other big QB extension).
This is a really cool example of confidently incorrect. I’m well aware of how extensions work. I could get into the complexity of this but most extensions aren’t even “extensions” in the NFL. Most essentially tear up the final year and may reapply a similar base but put the signing bonus in this year to give a higher cap number but spread the guarantee over more years.
His number is not set and we have actually done similar things in the past, Tyler Boyd comes to mind. He was due about a million dollars in his 4th year but got an “extension” taking his 4th year up to 11 million in cash but a 6 million dollar cap hit. Working cash forward now and sliding Burrows back is 100% a feasible approach to moving the money around.
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - Au165 - 03-01-2023
(03-01-2023, 12:09 AM)phil413 Wrote: This is a really good idea, more of a baseball deal to get guaranteed money now vs arbitration (in this case the tag) . Tee's motivation would be to win here now and then cash out elsewhere when he's 27, as opposed to after next year's tag year to carry him to 31. The gamble of course is injury and Tee has been dinged up a bit recently, it has to be on his mind.
That’s fair, the benefit of it though is he gets to go back into FA at 27 potentially for another massive pay day with a higher cap available.
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - Joelist - 03-01-2023
The big reason you keep Perine and move Mixon is Mixon is a total liability in pass protection. You need both the 1 and 2 RB to be able to pass block and also you need more explosion in the RB room.
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - Housh - 03-01-2023
(03-01-2023, 12:26 AM)Joelist Wrote: The big reason you keep Perine and move Mixon is Mixon is a total liability in pass protection. You need both the 1 and 2 RB to be able to pass block and also you need more explosion in the RB room.
Draft
Draft
And draft
Unless a back gets cut that does this…which i believe one fits that criteria.
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - phil413 - 03-01-2023
(03-01-2023, 12:17 AM)Au165 Wrote: That’s fair, the benefit of it though is he gets to go back into FA at 27 potentially for another massive pay day with a higher cap available.
That's what I'm saying, I think it's a win win for him to get ahead of being a 29 year old ver looking for a long term deal. Just comes down to him betting on himself vs injury.
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - casear2727 - 03-01-2023
(02-28-2023, 07:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: I am not convinced you can't get a Tee deal done now at a reasonable deal to get him extended for 2 more years beyond this year. He is making bare bones this year, so if you are willing to bring him up to say 15 this year from his current rate then say 19 next which is close to this years tag number and say 21 the following year I think you can punt the decision for a while and see how it falls.
The benefit for Tee is he is making a lot more this year than he would playing his deal out, so it's essentially trading an extra 12 this year and then playing a bit under the next two but considering if we sit on him this year at 3 million it works out the same total comp wise over next 3. If you structured the guarantees heavily across all three years I bet you could get it done. Otherwise he plays this year on his deal, then gets tagged next and maybe in 3 years he finally gets paid. Money now is worth more than money later in the Not For Long league.
(02-28-2023, 07:40 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I like that
(02-28-2023, 11:55 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: That is not how extensions work.
Tee's number this year is his number. It is not gonna change. Extension or not. Same with Wilson. Any extensions they do will kick in in 2024. Burrow's new deal won't kick 8n until 2025, as we will likely pick up that 5th year option (just like every other big QB extension).
(03-01-2023, 12:13 AM)Au165 Wrote: This is a really cool example of confidently incorrect. I’m well aware of how extensions work. I could get into the complexity of this but most extensions aren’t even “extensions” in the NFL. Most essentially tear up the final year and may reapply a similar base but put the signing bonus in this year to give a higher cap number but spread the guarantee over more years.
His number is not set and we have actually done similar things in the past, Tyler Boyd comes to mind. He was due about a million dollars in his 4th year but got an “extension” taking his 4th year up to 11 million in cash but a 6 million dollar cap hit. Working cash forward now and sliding Burrows back is 100% a feasible approach to moving the money around.
Tyler's extension worked like everyone else's. The signing bonus is always paid in full in the year the extension is signed.
It wasnt a voodoo "extension", it was a real Extension, it didnt take his 4th year contract up to 11M, it simply raised his cash received in the 4th year.
He did have some type of renegotiation or bonus hits in his 4th year, but it was less than a million dollars...
Tee can sign a 3 year extension this summer for 60M. He could get a 12M signing bonus, he will have a cap hit of his 4th year salary plus 3M prorated bonus. Doesn't impact his rookie deal, just the cap hit and cash paid....
You may have to get into the "complexity" because I have no idea why you think this is how it works? Where are you getting the figure "most" tear up the final year? I think it is exactly the opposite.
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - XenoMorph - 03-01-2023
(02-28-2023, 07:23 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: and that's not a good move. We are a couple pieces away from winning a SB (OL depth).
If you can't extend Tee, then you let him play it out and tag him next year for trade bait. Odds of finding another "Tee" in the draft is very low.
Get that SB win first with all of your horses, then you can do whatever you need to.
I personally try to get Tee on a 3 -4 Year deal mostly front loaded. so his big money is out of the way when Burrows and Chases are due.
But it will be impossible to keep everyone if they all go for what teams are willing to pay.
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - Sled21 - 03-01-2023
(02-28-2023, 06:59 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It's possible they're doing the standard "we'd never trade him!" schtick to drive up the price. Trading Tee rather than watching him get beaucoup bucks from a desperate GM and then waiting to see what sort of comp pick the NFL sees fit to give us would be a "new dey" move, wouldn't it?
We are not trading Tee Higgins....period. Three things this team has going for it are Burrow, Chase and Higgins, and damned if some of you aren't determined to get rid of one of them. Mixon can go IMO simply because he cannot block. Bates can go because we drafted Hill. WR's like Tee are not easy to replace.
RE: Tobin and ZT Speak at Combine - Nately120 - 03-01-2023
(03-01-2023, 09:19 AM)Sled21 Wrote: We are not trading Tee Higgins....period. Three things this team has going for it are Burrow, Chase and Higgins, and damned if some of you aren't determined to get rid of one of them. Mixon can go IMO simply because he cannot block. Bates can go because we drafted Hill. WR's like Tee are not easy to replace.
Im not trying to get rid of Tee, I just can't be 100% confident he won't walk when a team offers him a #1 role and #1 money.