(05-23-2023, 03:48 PM)dxdtdemon Wrote: Why wouldn't you value Higgins over Chase? Chase is an injury liability who some sucker is still going to pay as if he can put up that level of production for a full season. Getting his level of production for 13 games is fine when he's still on his rookie contract, but giving Chase any kind of an extension will pan out as well as the Ken Griffey, Jr. contract did for the Reds. On the other hand, yes, Higgins missed time this past season, too, but at least he has played a full season in the past, and with his height and size, he is less of an injury liability than the tiny Chase. Also, his height and size is the only reason this offense can work despite not having a good TE, because Higgins can run down the middle of the field and get hit and not get seriously hurt like Chase would.

(05-23-2023, 03:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: To bolded:  That's a bad analogy, as KG Jr. came to the Reds late in his career, after multiple stints on the IR with Seattle.  Chase is young, and ready to maintain superstar status for at least the next decade.  

As far as valuing Higgins over Chase, I can't see it.  It appears to me that replacing big bodied boundary receivers is much easier than finding another dynamic, complete playmaker like Jamarr Chase.   

(05-23-2023, 04:00 PM)PCB Bengal Fan Wrote: Did you really compare Chase to Griffey? Come on man!

Update: The #Bengals want to sign WR Tee Higgins and LB Logan Wilson to long term extensions.

The team views Higgins as an "Elite" wide receiver, per @JFowlerESPN

They will focus on those deals once the Joe Burrow contract is done.https://t.co/0u8uxr2t1v pic.twitter.com/0lilqRcoHW

— Dov Kleiman (@NFL_DovKleiman) May 23, 2023

(05-23-2023, 03:48 PM)dxdtdemon Wrote: Why wouldn't you value Higgins over Chase? Chase is an injury liability who some sucker is still going to pay as if he can put up that level of production for a full season. Getting his level of production for 13 games is fine when he's still on his rookie contract, but giving Chase any kind of an extension will pan out as well as the Ken Griffey, Jr. contract did for the Reds. On the other hand, yes, Higgins missed time this past season, too, but at least he has played a full season in the past, and with his height and size, he is less of an injury liability than the tiny Chase. Also, his height and size is the only reason this offense can work despite not having a good TE, because Higgins can run down the middle of the field and get hit and not get seriously hurt like Chase would.

(05-23-2023, 07:15 PM)ElkValleyBengal Wrote: Hate to be that guy, but does anyone know who this Twitter guy is?  I think we've jumped the gun quite a bit relying on anything Twitter-related to be accurate.

(05-23-2023, 11:24 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It'd be a mistake to value Higgins over Chase.

If they sign Higgins, then they absolutely need to sign Chase as well. If you are picking one, it should be Chase. Really hope they don't dig themselves into a hole by signing Higgins while letting Chase get away.

(05-23-2023, 03:48 PM)dxdtdemon Wrote: Why wouldn't you value Higgins over Chase? Chase is an injury liability who some sucker is still going to pay as if he can put up that level of production for a full season. Getting his level of production for 13 games is fine when he's still on his rookie contract, but giving Chase any kind of an extension will pan out as well as the Ken Griffey, Jr. contract did for the Reds. On the other hand, yes, Higgins missed time this past season, too, but at least he has played a full season in the past, and with his height and size, he is less of an injury liability than the tiny Chase. Also, his height and size is the only reason this offense can work despite not having a good TE, because Higgins can run down the middle of the field and get hit and not get seriously hurt like Chase would.

(05-23-2023, 01:07 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Well, almost. 

Mixon is as good as gone, and we save a smidge over $10 mil from him. Jonah's $12.5 comes off. That is $22.5+ mil. Boyd's $10.3 comes off the books, that is $33 mil, or thereabouts in savings. 

Burrow's 5th year option is $29.5 mil (compared to $11.5 this year). That is +$18 mil baked in. An extension will also need the signing bonus pro-rated in. So Burrow will likely add +$25 mil next year (before the extension kicks in the following year). Tee makes around $4 mil this year. His extension will kick in next year, IDK what contract kung fu we can do, but the cap hit is gonna be $15-$20 mil. Say $19, that is a +$15, and we are uo to +$40 mil next year for those two guys alone. 

Now, the cap itself will likely go up. Say $10-$15 mil, some of that will get eaten by baked in raises to other guys. Brown gets a bump next year, +$6 mil to cap hit. Say $5 mil or so is excess. We are still down $2 mil. $40 to $38. 

Hendrickson makes $17.5 with $2.5 dead cap. We could save $15 mil by letting him go. But premier pass rushers are hard to find. I would not count 9n him going, especially if he has a strong year (or Murphy does not). Ditto with Boyd (& Jones/Iosivas). 

There are lots of other guys that are up next year (Reader, $15.5, Awuzie $7.9) or we could save a chunk by letting go (Collins $7 mil, Hilton $6.45, BJ Hill $7 mil, Karras $6.4, Hubbard $6.1). I am all for keeping DJ, but 2 of those guys roughly equal Hendrickson. 

The benefit of Burrow's cap hit jumping so much in 2024 ($35 million-ish) is that with a good, creative contract structure, the jump in 2025 will not be as much. 

Boyd + Mixon + Jonah & Hendrickson = $47 mil or so in savings. That is enough. Likely for Wilson, too. But I am not sure it is those specific 4. Mixon & Jonah, yes. But I could see a combo of others instead of Hendrickson and/or Boyd. 

(05-23-2023, 03:48 PM)dxdtdemon Wrote: Why wouldn't you value Higgins over Chase? Chase is an injury liability who some sucker is still going to pay as if he can put up that level of production for a full season. Getting his level of production for 13 games is fine when he's still on his rookie contract, but giving Chase any kind of an extension will pan out as well as the Ken Griffey, Jr. contract did for the Reds. On the other hand, yes, Higgins missed time this past season, too, but at least he has played a full season in the past, and with his height and size, he is less of an injury liability than the tiny Chase. Also, his height and size is the only reason this offense can work despite not having a good TE, because Higgins can run down the middle of the field and get hit and not get seriously hurt like Chase would.

(05-23-2023, 09:54 PM)casear2727 Wrote: The truth of the matter is that it will be 2026 at the soonest, and likely 2027 before the AAV of all three (Burrow, Tee and Chase) hit in the same year.  The salary cap will continue to rise, especially these next two seasons.

(05-23-2023, 03:48 PM)dxdtdemon Wrote: Why wouldn't you value Higgins over Chase? Chase is an injury liability who some sucker is still going to pay as if he can put up that level of production for a full season. Getting his level of production for 13 games is fine when he's still on his rookie contract, but giving Chase any kind of an extension will pan out as well as the Ken Griffey, Jr. contract did for the Reds. On the other hand, yes, Higgins missed time this past season, too, but at least he has played a full season in the past, and with his height and size, he is less of an injury liability than the tiny Chase. Also, his height and size is the only reason this offense can work despite not having a good TE, because Higgins can run down the middle of the field and get hit and not get seriously hurt like Chase would.

(05-23-2023, 07:15 PM)ElkValleyBengal Wrote: Hate to be that guy, but does anyone know who this Twitter guy is?  I think we've jumped the gun quite a bit relying on anything Twitter-related to be accurate.

(05-23-2023, 03:48 PM)dxdtdemon Wrote: Why wouldn't you value Higgins over Chase? Chase is an injury liability who some sucker is still going to pay as if he can put up that level of production for a full season.

On the other hand, yes, Higgins missed time this past season, too, but at least he has played a full season in the past, and with his height and size, he is less of an injury liability than the tiny Chase.

(05-23-2023, 07:15 PM)ElkValleyBengal Wrote: Hate to be that guy, but does anyone know who this Twitter guy is? I think we've jumped the gun quite a bit relying on anything Twitter-related to be accurate.

(05-23-2023, 09:49 PM)casear2727 Wrote: These comments cannot be serious.  Weezy your comment is nonsensical, I have no idea how the thought even entered your brain?  There have been zero signals that the org values Higgins over Chase....?


As to Mr. Demon, I congratulate you.  That might be the dumbest comment we have had this off season.  I am also on the fence thinking that this might be some kind of a troll post playing with all of us.  If so you got me, and Im ok with that. Better to trick me than to actually have such a low knolwedge of ball.

(05-23-2023, 12:08 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This board over values the impact Higgins has on this team. If Higgins goes, his production can be replaced. 

Having an elite QB makes Higgins expendable. Having a good DL and OL is more important than having an "elite" WR2.