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RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - Forever Spinning Vinyl - 01-29-2025

Hilton should move to Safety. He was getting exposed more and more as the season went along. Still great against the run, though.

RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - Frank Booth - 01-29-2025

(01-29-2025, 04:06 PM)J24 Wrote: They let two of their top three defensive players go  from the Superbowl defense go and seem willingly to let Trey go next off-season. I'm sorry but Duke sounds like  a dumbass here and doesn't understand how his own roster was built.

his statement really pisses me off the more I read it lol

RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - Lucius Cincinnatus - 01-29-2025

(01-29-2025, 03:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Congrats, Duke! Admitting that there's a problem is the first step toward finding a solution.

It would warrant a congratulations if he was right/identified the right problem. What players did we hold on to for too long? Hubbard? If you look at the core of the Super Bowl defense...we let the following names go:

DJ Reader
Chido
Bates
Eli Apple
Vonn Bell (for a year then brought him back)
Trae Waynes
Tre Flowers
Josh Tupou

The only names we've kept since the super bowl/afc championship years are:
- Hubbard
- Hill
- Wilson
- Pratt
- Hilton


The only name you can really say has been a problem is Hubbard. Pratt hasn't been great, but it's not like he is a drastically different player than he was during that run. The problem hasn't been keeping guys too long. The problem is not effectively replacing the guys we lost. So hearing him blame the incorrect thing is actually concerning. 

RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - Frank Booth - 01-29-2025

(01-29-2025, 04:22 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: It would warrant a congratulations if he was right/identified the right problem. What players did we hold on to for too long? Hubbard? If you look at the core of the Super Bowl defense...we let the following names go:

DJ Reader
Chido
Bates
Eli Apple
Vonn Bell (for a year then brought him back)
Trae Waynes
Tre Flowers
Josh Tupou

The only names we've kept since the super bowl/afc championship years are:
- Hubbard
- Hill
- Wilson
- Pratt


The only name you can really say has been a problem is Hubbard. Pratt hasn't been great, but it's not like he is a drastically different player than he was during that run. The problem hasn't been keeping guys too long. The problem is not effectively replacing the guys we lost. So hearing him blame the incorrect thing is actually concerning. 

it's a baffling statement. It reeks of something a politician would say. Holding on to players was not the biggest problem

and I am very concerned as well

RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - coachmcneil71 - 01-29-2025

(01-29-2025, 03:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Congrats, Duke! Admitting that there's a problem is the first step toward finding a solution.

Well, and retaining the wrong players while letting key pieces walk. Cough,cough especially Bates, and Reader to an extent. Wtbs, just one solid hit in the draft on IDL could go a long ways in remedying the Reader loss. 

RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - Bengalitis - 01-29-2025

(01-29-2025, 04:06 PM)J24 Wrote: They let two of their top three defensive players go  from the Superbowl defense go and seem willingly to let Trey go next off-season. I'm sorry but Duke sounds like  a dumbass here and doesn't understand how his own roster was built.

This here.. and it showed really bad.

RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - coachmcneil71 - 01-29-2025

(01-29-2025, 04:07 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Hilton should move to Safety. He was getting exposed more and more as the season went along. Still great against the run, though.

Hilton will be moving, but it will probably be to another team. Pretty sure he's a FA. I've heard the Colts mentioned with him more than once.

RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - TecmoBengals - 01-29-2025

I wonder if these are even original thoughts and sentiments from Duke or just finely crafted PR fluff from someone else within the organization. Duke held onto the Super Bowl core too long? Does he just mean Wilson, Pratt, Trey, and Hubbard?

RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - Frank Booth - 01-29-2025

(01-29-2025, 04:50 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I wonder if these are even original thoughts and sentiments from Duke or just finely crafted PR fluff from someone else within the organization. Duke held onto the Super Bowl core too long?

agreed with all of this

RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 01-29-2025

There is only a couple players on Defense that he might of held onto too long in Hubbard and bringing back Bell. Hubbard was hurt last
year and Vonn was really cheap, pretty much being paid by the Panthers to play for us. This wasn't the main problem, the main problem
was letting Bates and Reader go without getting anything for them, adding shitty players in FA and Drafting poorly.

I don't get what Duke is saying here even if it is a good thing to admit mistakes were made. Lou made the mistake of starting Hubbard
and Bell, one was hurt and the other was washed up evidently. Ossai and Battle should of started over these two clearly looking back.

RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - 007BengalsFan - 01-29-2025

I dont know what Duke is talking about holding on to guys too long. He let 2 of the 3 best players leave on a defense that wasnt overly talented to begin with. The problem is not the Bengals holding on to guys too long, its they let talent leave they should have paid and should have kept. Duke and the rest of the Bengals management is to blame.

RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - SunsetBengal - 01-29-2025

(01-29-2025, 05:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: There is only a couple players on Defense that he might of held onto too long in Hubbard and bringing back Bell. Hubbard was hurt last
year and Vonn was really cheap, pretty much being paid by the Panthers to play for us. This wasn't the main problem, the main problem
was letting Bates and Reader go without getting anything for them, adding shitty players in FA and Drafting poorly.

I don't get what Duke is saying here even if it is a good thing to admit mistakes were made. Lou made the mistake of starting Hubbard
and Bell, one was hurt and the other was washed up evidently. Ossai and Battle should of started over these two clearly looking back.


Now we understand why Duke isn't allowed to speak in press conferences very often...

RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - phil413 - 01-29-2025

(01-29-2025, 03:51 PM)lone bengal Wrote: The major issue was  Tobin’s  young draft picks didn’t step up Murphy , Zac Carter , Cam Britt-Taylor , DJ Turner, Battle, Volson.  Stone and Rankins were new high priced additions and both disasters. He lets a stud in his prime like Bates walk and replaces Reader with Rankins and he says he held on to some guys too long ? Maybe losing the guys you let walk is the bigger issue and your crappy drafts.

Yeah that was my reaction, they've been bad at restocking talent but the problem was that you kept some guys around too long? 

RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - SunsetBengal - 01-29-2025

(01-29-2025, 03:51 PM)lone bengal Wrote: The major issue was  Tobin’s  young draft picks didn’t step up Murphy , Zac Carter , Cam Britt-Taylor , DJ Turner, Battle, Volson.  Stone and Rankins were new high priced additions and both disasters. He lets a stud in his prime like Bates walk and replaces Reader with Rankins and he says he held on to some guys too long ? Maybe losing the guys you let walk is the bigger issue and your crappy drafts.

Let's be honest here, CTB, Battle and DJ Turner are just fine. CTB was never going to be CB1 from the get go. Battle and Turner are doing just fine aside from Turner's season ending injury. 

If you think that Stone and Rankins were "high priced" additions, you better check the salary scale. Both of them were cheap signings, well maybe they did pay Rankins too much out of desperation, but that's their own fault for not offering DJ Reader fair market to come back.

RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - Clark W Griswold - 01-29-2025

(01-29-2025, 04:00 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I think that the plan was for Cam Sample or Joseph Ossai to develop into the role. That didn't happen, Sam is looking washed from injuries with still a hole to fill.

I think they were really banking on the guy they may have wasted a first round pick on - Murphy. He has shown very little so far so I just hope they don’t rely solely on him improving this season. They need to get someone else (Mack?) to pair with Trey.

RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - SunsetBengal - 01-29-2025

(01-29-2025, 08:33 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: I think they were really banking on the guy they may have wasted a first round pick on - Murphy.  He has shown very little so far so I just hope they don’t rely solely on him improving this season. They need to get someone else (Mack?) to pair with Trey.

Murphy was a desperation pick, as neither Sample nor Ossai had turned into instant success. Now, I don't know how much influence the previous DL coach had in those selections, but we're about to find out this year if a change does any good. 

RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - J24 - 01-29-2025

(01-29-2025, 08:21 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Let's be honest here, CTB, Battle and DJ Turner are just fine. CTB was never going to be CB1 from the get go. Battle and Turner are doing just fine aside from Turner's season ending injury. 

If you think that Stone and Rankins were "high priced" additions, you better check the salary scale. Both of them were cheap signings, well maybe they did pay Rankins too much out of desperation, but that's their own fault for not offering DJ Reader fair market to come back.
Well said!
(01-29-2025, 08:42 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Murphy was a desperation pick, as neither Sample nor Ossai had turned into instant success. Now, I don't know how much influence the previous DL coach had in those selections, but we're about to find out this year if a change does any good. 
Agreed on all fronts. 

RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes - 01-29-2025

(01-29-2025, 02:56 PM)pally Wrote:   

 

Is that quote missing a not?

The problem was that he let Bates, Reader, Awuzie, Ogunjobi, Bell, Apple all leave and failed to adequately replace them.

They’ve subsequently spent a first round pick (Dax Hill), a third round pick(Jordan Battle) and two FAs (Nick Scott and Geno Stone) to try and replace Bates and Bell; a second (Kris Jenkins) and a third round (McKinley Jackson) picks to try and replace DJ Reader; two second round picks (DJ Turner and CTB) to try and replace Awuzie; $10m on Sheldon Rankins to replace Ogunjobi; a fourth round (Fig Newton) to replace Eli Apple and none of those have worked out yet - albeit some may yet do so.

At the risk of repeating everyone else unless this is buyer’s remorse at extending Pratt the only one they hung onto for too long was Hubbard for whom it was a season too far but given his status it would have been a surprise had they moved on from him this time last year.

RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - Destro - 01-29-2025

The Brown family held on to Duke for too long.

RE: Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long - NUGDUKWE - 01-29-2025

(01-29-2025, 04:24 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: it's a baffling statement. It reeks of something a politician would say. Holding on to players was not the biggest problem

and I am very concerned as well

The statement is very concerning to me as well. I agree with all you've said i felt like it was a trick or an attempt to be a coach speak blanket statement. To point out a problem that isn't the problem deflates the hope balloon a bit. 

The only way I can spin that comment to a way that makes sense. Is maybe the way they've approached the roster specifically the defense is by letting the expensive players go while trying to hold onto the cheaper players keeping more of the unit intact. Where is we had just focused on the 4 or so players we needed to keep and focused on drafting the rest to fill in the rest. But at a certain point I may just putting words into his mouth to make myself feel better.