(03-17-2025, 09:55 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Zack has nothing to do with it.

Bengals fans should be thanking Tee, Jamar, Burrow, and their agent.

They basically heald the Bengals hostage into giving them no choice to sign them. Burrow was applying public pressure, Jamar said im not signing here if you don't sign Tee as well. The front office had no choice.

(03-17-2025, 11:52 AM)Millhouse Wrote: I strongly disagree. IF Zac didn't go 2-14 with Andy Dalton and Ryan Finley, then there would have been no Burrow to begin with.

(03-17-2025, 09:55 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Zack has nothing to do with it.

Bengals fans should be thanking Tee, Jamar, Burrow, and their agent.

They basically heald the Bengals hostage into giving them no choice to sign them. Burrow was applying public pressure, Jamar said im not signing here if you don't sign Tee as well. The front office had no choice.

(03-17-2025, 09:59 AM)rupethereitis Wrote: I disagree.  This doesn't happen without Zac and the culture he's brought.  

(03-17-2025, 12:14 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: I think this is more of a business decision, liking Zac helps, but not the deciding factor imo.

(03-17-2025, 12:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Players want the most money. They don't care what team they're on generally.

Chase and Tee are highest paid WR 1 and WR 2. If they loved Zac so much and wanted to be here, they would have signed much sooner for less money.

(03-17-2025, 11:52 AM)Millhouse Wrote: I strongly disagree. IF Zac didn't go 2-14 with Andy Dalton and Ryan Finley, then there would have been no Burrow to begin with.

(03-17-2025, 10:21 AM)CJD Wrote: Did Zac create the culture, or did Joe Burrow and Ja'Marr Chase create the culture?

I remember that, in 2019 and a lot of 2020, the veterans on the team had big problems with how Zac was running the team. He did himself no favors by benching Andy Dalton on his birthday in 2019, just in time to not be able to trade him, and then releasing him after the draft when Joe Burrow was drafted (after free agency was over and most of the starting roles were set in stone across the league)

Then Carlos Dunlap's demotion and subsequent media engagement about the arguments.

You could argue some of this was above Zac's head, but this article references moments in real time that Zac did to alienate players on his team, in team meetings and the like.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/zac-taylor-bengals-culture-problem

Winning heals many wounds though, and that winning has a lot to do with what Joe and Ja'Marr (and Tee) built with this offense.

I don't dislike Zac Taylor or think he should be fired. But I also don't think he was the catalyst to making this team what it is today. I think he's a perfectly average head coach who happens to have an elite QB and WR trio.

(03-17-2025, 10:21 AM)CJD Wrote: Did Zac create the culture, or did Joe Burrow and Ja'Marr Chase create the culture?

I remember that, in 2019 and a lot of 2020, the veterans on the team had big problems with how Zac was running the team. He did himself no favors by benching Andy Dalton on his birthday in 2019, just in time to not be able to trade him, and then releasing him after the draft when Joe Burrow was drafted (after free agency was over and most of the starting roles were set in stone across the league)

Then Carlos Dunlap's demotion and subsequent media engagement about the arguments.

You could argue some of this was above Zac's head, but this article references moments in real time that Zac did to alienate players on his team, in team meetings and the like.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/zac-taylor-bengals-culture-problem

Winning heals many wounds though, and that winning has a lot to do with what Joe and Ja'Marr (and Tee) built with this offense.

I don't dislike Zac Taylor or think he should be fired. But I also don't think he was the catalyst to making this team what it is today. I think he's a perfectly average head coach who happens to have an elite QB and WR trio.

(03-17-2025, 12:38 PM)rupethereitis Wrote: Maybe that's the culture change.  I'm used to seeing players wanting to leave no matter what.  Losing was too much.  Maybe they don't care about winning like they used to, which is disappointing in a sense. Now after going 4-8 did this team fold?  Did they try and get their coach fired?  No.  In fact it appeared they never gave up in most games, and that can be attributed to coaching and culture.   I've seen a lot of teams quite on past Bengals coaches so money may not be everything.

The Bengals never have dealt well with hostage negotiation tactics. When they hold the cards, which they did with Higgins and Chase, they got it done.   They could have kept Higgins on the franchise tag, traded him.  Chase was still under contract and could have been franchised next year.  All thing Bengals have done before.  But wait, that would have pissed off Burrow... They don't care or at least they didn't in the past.  Players and contracts in the past were treated like commodities for a family business, without care of the fans, players, or coaches.  

Palmer, Dillon, Pickens, Justin Smith, Big Daddy, Spikes, Rudy, Whitworth, Housh, Zeitler, Bates... the list goes on and on.  

We will see with Hendrickson.   I have a feeling that if he doesn't get what we wants ( he won't) there will be an ugly parting of ways. But Zac calmed him down last year so we will see if he can work some magic again.   

(03-17-2025, 12:44 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Demoting Dunlap and Dalton was about creating the culture he wanted.

Burrow is a huge part of his success but Zac has consistently empowered Joe.

Everyone likes to put a lot of store in the NFLPA rankings for things like food and family care when they are negative but the fact that Zac Taylor was rated an A by his players went largely uncommented on. Similarly whilst everyone now loves Ja’Marr and thinks his selection was a no-brainer at the time he wasn’t the popular choice as most wanted Sewell. Sewell is a fine player but we don’t go to the Super Bowl without Chase.

Zac is largely in the position where if things go right others get the credit but if things go wrong it’s his fault.

(03-17-2025, 01:20 PM)Wyche Wrote: There was also an article that interviewed Kenny Anderson, and he stated that he knew the culture flip was on the horizon after a spirited practice (as he called it) in London during a lost season. 

Yes, having Joe Burrow helps for sure, but I haven't seen many complaints about him from players, and if memory serves, most complaints involved Lou early on with veteran malcontents. 

(03-17-2025, 01:24 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Those guys were all on bad teams.

Burrow is the change. IF Burrow wasn't here, and it was Zac coaching Andy, do you think we go to a SB? If some other coach was here with Burrow, do you think we go to a SB?

(03-17-2025, 01:24 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Those guys were all on bad teams.

Burrow is the change. IF Burrow wasn't here, and it was Zac coaching Andy, do you think we go to a SB? If some other coach was here with Burrow, do you think we go to a SB?

(03-17-2025, 01:24 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Those guys were all on bad teams.

Burrow is the change. IF Burrow wasn't here, and it was Zac coaching Andy, do you think we go to a SB? If some other coach was here with Burrow, do you think we go to a SB?