(01-02-2016, 02:15 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: And if they are truly that bad, then they should have zero wins, but that has happened only once in a 16 game season, just as there has been only one team to get through 16 games without a loss.

Yes, there are teams who are on the top end of the spectrum of overall talent of the players and coaches, as well as teams on the bottom end of the spectrum.  But, as has already been stated, the spectrum isn't very wide in the NFL.  If it could be quantified, the spectrum would be a mile long in high school, a few hundered yards long in college, and only one  foot long in the NFL.

(01-02-2016, 01:16 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Vicious cycle of 5 straight playoff teams started with a rookie QB? What is vicious about that exactly? I would take 5 more playoffs (10 in a row as I believe it would be a NFL record) with odds we will start winning playoff games. No playoff game and no hope of winning one is not an option I want in the future.

(01-02-2016, 01:16 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Vicious cycle of 5 straight playoff teams started with a rookie QB? What is vicious about that exactly? I would take 5 more playoffs (10 in a row as I believe it would be a NFL record) with odds we will start winning playoff games. No playoff game and no hope of winning one is not an option I want in the future.

(01-02-2016, 12:16 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: How am I totally missing it? The Bengals loss to the Texans this season was BAD, plain and simple. I'm not saying good teams can't lose to bad teams, I'm saying the Bengals absolutely chocked in that game because we played bad not because the Texans were good. People want to say we lost to the Texans because "They are a playoff team" when that didn't even matter at that point because it was only week 10, nor does it matter now. 

The Bengals were 8-0 and the Texans were 3-5. We came into the game averaging 28 points a game, which is equivalent to 4 touchdowns a game. The Texans came into the game with opposing teams scoring an average of 25 points a game on them, which is equivalent to at least three touchdowns a game. We were at home, they were not. We were ranked 2nd in Power Rankings that week, they were ranked 27th. They lost their starting quarterback in the 3rd quarter, we had ours the entire game. They came into the game with the worst red zone defense in the AFC and somehow all we scored were two field goals on them. If you can't see how that was a bad loss I don't know what to tell you. Oh and I know I already said it, but I'll say it again. We were at home.

(01-02-2016, 09:39 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: The point you are missing is the Bengals are no different than Patriots, Steelers, Jets, KC, etc.. they have all lost to a team they should have beat.. what the hell are power rankings ?? a piece of paper.. the Ravens were ranked in top 10 when they were like 1-3.. who cares about power rankings.. the power is who is able over  16 GAME SEASON. win the most games.. the Bengals are headed for 12-4 hopefully.. the Steelers could go 10-6 and not make the playoffss.. why  they lost twice to the Ravens..  you guys act like lossing to the Texans is worse than other bad losses.. ie NE to Philly or Pitt to Baltimore.. etc.. makes no sense.

(01-02-2016, 10:18 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: First of all, I never said the Bengals losing to the Texans is worse than other teams losing to teams they should beat. I said the Bengals loss to the Texans was bad for reasons I stated above which you seemed to completely ignore besides the Power Ranking stat. People are trying to say the Texans loss wasn't that bad because "They're a playoff team" when that argument holds very little weight. If you want to sit here and act like the Patriots losing to the Eagles or Pittsburgh losing to Baltimore was as bad as the Bengals losing to the Texans, then please present some facts to back up your claims.

Even if those losses were just as bad, you're still completely missing the point. Again, I never said good teams can't lose to bad teams, or that the Bengals loss was worse than other teams losses against bad teams. What I'm taking issue with is the fact that people want to act like the loss wasn't bad because "They're a playoff team" or because "Other good teams have lost to bad teams" when none of that nullifies the fact that we had a bad loss to a bad team. Instead of trying to cover up bad losses by saying things like "That team is a playoff team" or "Other good teams have bad losses" people should just own up to the fact that when we play like that we can never win a game against any team whether they're good or bad.

(01-01-2016, 11:16 PM)TexasorBusted Wrote: It's the NFL. The other teams get paid too. Parity is the ultimate goal of the league. The difference between being a good and bad team is pretty minimal. It's not like college football where there are true talent disparities. I would argue that the Bengals are the most talented team in the league, but they can still lose to "less talented" teams any given week. This is where injuries, character of the teams, leadership, coaching, preparation, etc come into play.

It's rare to see a team be favored by more than 14 points in Vegas for a reason. In college it's routine to see 28+ point spreads during the regular season, even in conference play.

(01-02-2016, 11:30 PM)TexasorBusted Wrote: You twisted my arm. Let's call the Texans loss at home on MNF a bad loss to a bad team. Let's see how all of the other playoff teams handled their schedules:
Vikings lost to the 49ers in Week 1 on MNF.
Cardinals lost to the Rams at home in Week 4.
Panthers lost to the Falcons in Week 16.
Packers lost to the Lions at home in Week 10 and the Bears in Week 12 on TNF.
Seahawks lost to the Rams in Week 1 and the Rams again in Week 16.
Redskins lost at home to the Dolphins in Week 1 and Cowboys in Week 13 on MNF.
Bengals lost at home to the Texans in Week 10 on MNF.
Broncos lost at home to the Raiders in Week 14.
Patriots lost at home to the Eagles in Week 13.
Chiefs lost at home to the Bears in Week 5.
Texans lost to the Falcons in Week 4, Dolphins in Week 7 and Bills in Week 13.
Jets lost at home to the Eagles in Week 3, Raiders in Week 8, at home to the Bills in Week 10 and Texans in Week 11.
Steelers lost at to the Ravens in Week 4 and Ravens again in Week 16.

So every team in the playoffs plus Steelers has a bad loss by your definition. Not sure what you are getting at. We maybe talking past each other, but this feels like "Water is wet" type stuff. I never went through each teams' losses, but the Bengals stack up well in that department pretty well...

(01-03-2016, 12:57 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote:

Quote:This is spot on. Teams change throughout the season. The OP point is primarily a good team should not lose to a bad team. It maybe better stated that a team with a good record should not lose to a team with a poor record. That seems to be a logical statement however there are far too many variables for it to be that simple: scheme, matchups, familaraily the flu, a nagging injury, lack of motivation (playoffs already locked up) all will play a factor in "any given Sunday".

Well you are partly right that part of my point is that a good team shouldn't lose to a bad one (assuming there aren't variables that effect their play significantly such as key injuries etc..), but it is not my primary point here. My primary point is that Bengals fans and NFL fans in general should not be using the excuse that so many fans here are using that losing to the Texans somehow isn't a big deal because "They are a playoff team" or because "Other teams have lost to bad teams". Neither of those points is ever a good excuse for losing to anyone.

Quote:I look at it at the time of the game for exactly the reasond TexasorBusted stated. Take the KC game this year...they beat a 1-5 team that was not considered "good" nor did they have a good record. There are plenty on here that when the season ends will start talking about how the Bengals beat a "playoff" team in the  11-5 or 10-6 Chiefs as proof that the Bengals were really good. However they will give every excuse why they lost to teams with winning records at the time of the game (ARZ, DEN, PITT). This same group with then point to losses to the "playoff" teams like the Texans as more proof the team was good...SMFH! "Our only losses were to playoff teams...I am surprised we lost in the first round of the PLAYOFFS"...for real?

See, and this right here is exactly what I'm getting at.  People want to use the "Playoff team" argument as a way of legitimizing things when it's a very bad argument to make.

(01-04-2016, 03:09 AM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: By "my" definition? And what definition is that? I think you're misconstruing what I'm saying.

Again, I understand that good teams lose to bad teams, and I'm not denying that it happens. What I'm saying is that I take issue with people covering up the Texans loss by saying "We lost to a playoff team" when that is really just an excuse to ignore the fact that we played badly against a bad team, which shouldn't have happened. Yes, good teams do lose to bad teams, but good teams shouldn't go 4 quarters without scoring a touchdown against a bad team at home (assuming said team doesn't have key injuries etc...) It is actually very possible to play good against a bad team and still lose. Just because good teams lose against bad teams does not mean that all those losses were "bad" ones. The Bengals loss however was definitely a bad loss to a bad team.

(01-01-2016, 10:54 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: I'm wondering how people feel about the argument of "playoff teams" as a way of legitimizing the Bengals season this year. One thing in particular that seems to be coming up around here in various arguments is the loss to the Houston Texans. Obviously there are fans divided on the argument. Some say the loss to them was a bad loss, others say it's not that bad of a loss because the Texans are a "Playoff team". I feel like this type of argument can be very misleading because it ignores two very important things.

First off.... just because a team goes to the playoffs does not mean that they are necessarily a "good" team. As a matter of fact, if it wasn't for the NFL rule that a team from each division gets to go to the playoffs, then the Texans wouldn't even be in the playoffs right now. They would have been knocked out by the Steelers.... But since the Texans are the leader of their division right now they get to go to the playoffs as it currently stands. It's something that has been an issue with fans for a long time...

The 2010 NFL season is a great example of this actually because a lot of people complained about it. It's the same year that Marshawn Lynch ended up having his game saving Beast Mode touchdown against the Saints to win their playoff game. But the funny thing about it is that the Seahawks were only in the playoffs to begin with because of the technicality of the NFL rule regarding divisional winners. That year there were 3 other teams that had better records than the Seahawks, but the Seahawks got to go to the playoffs because they won their division with a 7-9 record. The three other teams that had better records than them that didn't get to go to the playoffs that year were the New York Giants/Tampa Bay Buccaneers (both 10-6) and the San Diego Chargers (9-7).

So does this mean that those teams weren't good because they didn't get to go to the playoffs but the 7-9 Seahawks did? Of course not, nor does it mean they're good teams vice versa. People need to stop looking at this as "Team (whoever) made it to the playoffs, so that means they're a good team/it wasn't a bad loss". There's so many variables you have to look at besides the fact that they made it to the playoffs.

A team can be good for a few weeks but then be terrible for the rest of the season. This means that just because a team beats the Patriots in week 2 or 3, doesn't mean that they are automatically a "good" team just as losing to the Patriots wouldn't make them a bad team either. They could be having a rough start, they could have injuries, they could have personnel issues etc... The main point is that you have to look at the meat and bones of the situation rather than just the outside of it, ie "They made it to the playoffs, thus they are a good team" or "They beat so and so that week, so that makes them the better team".  A team could make it to the playoffs and lose their starting quarterback and get lose their first playoff game. Does that mean they were a bad team? No, they lost their starting QB for crying out loud... Teams change throughout the season, coaches change throughout the season, injuries happen, bad ref calls happen, basically.... a lot happens throughout the season to determine who are the greats and who are the not so greats. Just look at the Kansas City Chiefs this year. They won their first game of the season against the Texans and then lost their next 5 straight and people were laughing at them. Then they rebounded and have now won their last 9 games. Does that make them a good team or not? I dunno, you tell me.