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+--- Thread: Tiki Barber on how to fix fumbling (/thread-4890.html)
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RE: Tiki Barber on how to fix fumbling - Sovereign Nation - 01-21-2016
You know, I could have lived with Hill's fumble if not for one thing...
That is he wasn't running like that for 3 quarters. He didn't start running hard until after Gio got hurt. I know some will take this as the coaches (mainly Marvin) for not doing enough to motivate his guys, but that is weak sauce. I mean, you're playing in a playoff game, with a chance to go to the Superbowl and maybe even win one. How is a coach supposed to motivate you, if you aren't already motivated then that is on you and not the coaching.
So his running improved after Gio got injured and it wasn't even by a little. It was like watching a completely different player.
He runs like that all game long and we are looking at 2nd or 3rd and short on a regular basis. We don't have to rely on him not fumbling there, because we are probably up 2 scores.
My advice to him, is to run like that every play. Run hard, aggressive, decisive and plow through the hole with determination.
Do I want him to fumble? Of course not. However, I don't want him running like he ran for the 1st 3 quarters of the game either. If he could correct both that would be wonderful, but to me I would rather fix the way he runs over his fumbling, which wasn't really that bad last year.
RE: Tiki Barber on how to fix fumbling - Wyche'sWarrior - 01-21-2016
(01-21-2016, 12:19 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You got me to go along with most of it, except....
Yes, he did do something wrong there. It's called you're running out the clock to win a game, PUT TWO F'ING HANDS ON THE BALL. I watched the Broncos game. Toussiant or however you spell it gets the ball punched out, Broncos get it, and go on a short drive to get a TD. Did you notice what happened when the Broncos players got the ball? They put two freaking hands on it.
One job in that situation, protect the ball. If you're not using two hands the entire time, you're most certainly doing something wrong there.
Not saying he's fumbling his way out of the league. Great RBs can get away with some fumbling, just look at Adrian Peterson. You can't be fumbling AND running for 3.6 YPC though.
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guyofthetiger
Hill needs many more touches in a game. Other teams give the ball to their running back and eventually the D gets worn out. Also, the back gets better as he carries more. I would like to see Hill get 20+ carries a game in 2016.
None of those teams giving their RB the ball 20+ times to wear out a D has their RB going for so few yards. If you gave Hill 20+ carries a game and he runs like he did in 2015, your offense will suck. Meanwhile you're taking the ball out of Dalton who was in the MVP conversation before he got hurt, just so a RB can reach some magical number of carries.
The way Hill was running in a lot of games in 2015, 21 carries is the same as saying 7 straight 1-2-3-and punt possessions.
Not to mention, Hill actually had 1 more carry in 2015 than he did in 2014, yet his YPC dropped 1.5. Giving a horribly struggling RB more chances to bog down your offense isn't the answer unless you think every game his 20th carry will be for like an 80 yard TD to actually bring his AVG up to a respectable number.
He also lost track of situational football there when he just didn't go to the turf.
RE: Tiki Barber on how to fix fumbling - Shake n Blake - 01-21-2016
Btw, I forgot to mention that Hill was 10th in the league in carries. Of the top 10, only Devonta Freeman fumbled less than Hill.
RE: Tiki Barber on how to fix fumbling - Wyche'sWarrior - 01-21-2016
(01-21-2016, 02:51 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Btw, I forgot to mention that Hill was 10th in the league in carries. Of the top 10, only Devonta Freeman fumbled less than Hill.
......a guy we could've had......
RE: Tiki Barber on how to fix fumbling - jason - 01-21-2016
(01-21-2016, 06:53 PM)Wyche Wrote: ......a guy we could've had.....He's just like Hill. He hasn't put together a full season either.
RE: Tiki Barber on how to fix fumbling - Housh - 01-21-2016
(01-20-2016, 07:51 PM)rob Wrote: Jeremy hill had a bad year. 3.6 ypc is pretty bad, yes, but people are freaking out about it. im not worried. Jeremy hill is, in my eyes, one of the best rbs in the league. he will be fine next year. you act like he averages more fumbles than tds. to be honest, it is not uncommon to have a "SOPHMORE SLUMP".Sometimes you gotta read what you post just to make sure there aren't any obvious blunders
my problem is the way the utilize hill/gio. it is horrid. hard to watch. a good friend of mine is a browns fan (from Cleveland) and he said the same thing, during the pitt playoff game. He said it is absolutely terrible the way we utilize those 2. Hill should have 15+ carries a game. he is THAT kind of back. Why is gio being used to run right up the middle?? makes no sense, that is HILLS AREA TO RUN. It almost makes me think we are better off without gio.
Gio was the better back this year by far
RE: Tiki Barber on how to fix fumbling - fredtoast - 01-21-2016
(01-21-2016, 07:04 PM)jason Wrote: He's just like Hill. He hasn't put together a full season either.
And Hill has been more productive
Hill.............1918 rush yards...4.3 avg....2215 total yards....21 tds
Freeeman...1304 rush yards...4.0 avg....2107 total yards....16 tds
RE: Tiki Barber on how to fix fumbling - TheLeonardLeap - 01-21-2016
(01-20-2016, 07:51 PM)rob Wrote: Jeremy hill had a bad year. 3.6 ypc is pretty bad, yes, but people are freaking out about it. im not worried. Jeremy hill is, in my eyes, one of the best rbs in the league. he will be fine next year. you act like he averages more fumbles than tds. to be honest, 1. it is not uncommon to have a "SOPHMORE SLUMP".
my problem is the way the utilize hill/gio. it is horrid. hard to watch. a good friend of mine is 2. a browns fan (from Cleveland) and he said the same thing, during the pitt playoff game. He said it is absolutely terrible the way we utilize those 3. Hill should have 15+ carries a game. he is THAT kind of back. 4. Why is gio being used to run right up the middle?? makes no sense, that is HILLS AREA TO RUN. 5. It almost makes me think we are better off without gio.
1. Sophomore slump is one thing, but looking like a completely different back that finished 2014 is another thing. He's had 9 games as one of the best rushers in the NFL, and 27 as one of the worst. That's the concerning part. A slump would be dropping from like a 5.1 to a 4.5 YPC, not plummeting down to being a lesser Trent Richardson.
2. A Browns fan's opinion... on football matters... pfttt.
3. Hill had 5 games under 3.0 YPC in 2015. He only had 4 games over 4.0 YPC in 2015. If you're doing really poorly, a team can't afford to just keep giving you the ball so you can lead to 3rd & 8, or 2nd & 12 and destroy any chance at scoring.
4.
Hill up the middle..
2015: 3.5 YPC (3.6 Overall)
2014: 3.7 YPC (5.1 Overall)
Gio up the middle..
2015: 4.5 YPC (4.7 Overall)
2014: 4.0 YPC (4.0 Overall)
That's why. Hill has never been good up the middle in his NFL career, Gio has. People see Hill at 235lbs and assume he must rule up the middle, but he doesn't, and people just remember Gio's rookie year where he wasn't good up the middle (because he didn't have NFL muscles yet) and that's just become the narrative.
5. No. Just no.
RE: Tiki Barber on how to fix fumbling - grampahol - 01-22-2016
Whenever you have 250-350 pounds of muscle trying to yank you to the ground from 4 different directions you're bound to have the ball taken from you at some point. Jeremy did fine most of the time, but the OLine didn't really do him a hell of a lot of favors opening up holes for him to run through. As pointed out it is a team sport. I doubt anyone could ever run the ball 10 feet a season without the oline helping out along the way.
RE: Tiki Barber on how to fix fumbling - Sovereign Nation - 01-22-2016
(01-21-2016, 12:57 PM)Wyche Wrote: He also lost track of situational football there when he just didn't go to the turf.
This is another aspect that I can't even fathom.
We could've taken a knee and backed up 6 yards, and missed the FG and had been in a better situation to win this game.
So when the coach makes the right decision to run the ball, to make them call TOs and possibly getting a 1st down, which would have sealed the deal. He has to know, that lunging forward is not needed in this situation. Sure he loses a yard or less, but we still keep the ball, with it being 2nd and 5 and they burn a TO.
Run forward, 2 hands on the ball, get hit, and go down immediately. Make sure your knee is on the ground as fast as you can. Even if you don't get a single yard, you still get them to burn the TO, and you have 2nd and 10.
Less time on the clock, less TO. More important than getting as many yards as you can on 1st down in this situation. A 10 yard run on 1st down, doesn't do as much for us as keeping control of the ball.
RE: Tiki Barber on how to fix fumbling - Daddy-O - 01-22-2016
Hill needs to work on his situational awareness. Fumbles are going to happen, it's the timing of which that magnify the event.
Ever see Gio or Rex Burkhead run between the tackles without 2 hands on the pill? Once they bust through the line yes, but during the initial charge through the LOS they both secure the ball with both hands.
Hill needs to learn this and it's up to the coaches to make sure he understands what to do and when.