(06-23-2015, 08:43 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: #1 supporting cast should be enough to allow Dalton to take this team far. We'll see if that happens.

(06-22-2015, 08:11 PM)Stormborn Wrote: http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2497811-power-ranking-every-nfl-quarterbacks-supporting-cast

... I really don't care what the article says, or that's is by the Bleacher Report, I just wanted my first thread to be inevitable chaos of idiotic proportions. Don't let me down usual suspects.

(06-22-2015, 09:49 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Prior to Andy Dalton coming to cincinnati, everyone would love that people are giving our offense props but since many of the hardcore homers have put Dalton on a pedestal they probably will claim the article is wack and our offense isn't really that good. They will then make excuses for Dalton to ensure that the reason the Bengals are mediocre on offense is because of the coach, injuries, players, weather, etc.

(06-23-2015, 12:26 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Matt Ryan had the #2 running game in the entire league his rookie season.

Last year was the first time Dalton had had a running game that ranked higher than 22nd in yards per carry, but his receiving corps was busted up with injuries.

(06-23-2015, 11:14 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: And with Roddy White, Julio Jones, and (for a few years) Tony Gonzalez....yeah, Matt Ryan has no supporting cast and plays in such an incredibly tough division (sarcasm..the defenses at Tampa and New Orleans are a joke)

(06-23-2015, 11:10 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I doubt it.  Most "hardcore homers" as you refer to them understand that offensively, Dalton has not come close to having this roster in any of the playoff games.  They also have the intelligence that you have this entire other half of your team that must perform in the postseason as well to have any chance of winning. 

(06-23-2015, 02:09 AM)fredtoast Wrote: But he had Julio Jones, Roddy White , and Tony Gonzales.

(06-23-2015, 12:22 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Which means it's all on Matt Ryan's arm while he's being chased around the pocket. No defense either.

(06-22-2015, 09:49 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Prior to Andy Dalton coming to cincinnati, everyone would love that people are giving our offense props but since many of the hardcore homers have put Dalton on a pedestal they probably will claim the article is wack and our offense isn't really that good. They will then make excuses for Dalton to ensure that the reason the Bengals are mediocre on offense is because of the coach, injuries, players, weather, etc.

(06-23-2015, 04:51 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Regardless of whether we are ranked #1 or #4, the bottom line is that we have a very talented offense. There is no excuse for our mediocre performances. The QB needs to play much better.

(06-23-2015, 11:46 AM)djs7685 Wrote: I don't think anyone has ever said that Matt Ryan hasn't had good receiving targets.

There wasn't always tons of depth, but Jones, White, Douglas, Gonzalez, Turner, Rodgers was a solid lineup in 2011-2012.

61.3 completion percentage, 4,177 yards, 7.38 YPA, 29 TD, 12 INT, 92.2 rating
68.6 completion percentage, 4,719 yards, 7.67 YPA, 32 TD, 14 INT, 99.1 rating

That was behind a mediocre line.

I think Andy SHOULD be able to end the year with a statline between those 2 years from Matt Ryan if the team stays relatively healthy. I don't think he has any excuse not to in 2015 unless Hill rushes for the 3,000 yards that some people think he will. Realistically, I don't think it should be asking a lot from Andy to have similar statistics to 2011-2012 Matt Ryan assuming a healthy team. The supporting casts are definitely on par with one another. Hopefully we'll see if the QBs are with no excuses this year.

(06-24-2015, 09:23 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Just like I have said before, when Dalton is kept clean (which seems to be in direct relation to his offensive line having all their starters) he picks teams apart. 

(06-24-2015, 09:43 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Which NFL QB does this not apply to? I'm just saying, most QBs "pick teams apart" when they have a completely clean pocket. You can't expect it to always be clean though, no offensive line in the history of the league has a 100% success rate, guys are playing defense for a reason.

It's also not always the case though with Andy picking teams apart when clean. These are stats with only passes where Andy had no pressure at all...

IND - 16/29, 55.2% completion, 91 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 3.1 YPA
CLE1 - 8/24, 33.3% completion, 60 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT, 2.5 YPA

Sometimes Andy just seems "off" even when he isn't being pressured, and that is probably his biggest issue with his bad games being SO bad.

I think we do agree that Andy's success does rely heavily on keeping him upright because throughout his career he's always been average or worse (usually pretty bad) under pressure. Luckily, his quick release along with the offensive line's ability to pass protect has kept him clean more than almost any other QB in the league over the last 4 years.

Andy needs everyone around him healthy, he needs to improve a little bit under pressure, and he needs to not have his bad games be SO bad. If those things happen, I don't see why he couldn't have a career year with the Bengals winning a playoff game or two. I have some amount of faith in Andy even though I don't think he's a good QB right now.

(06-24-2015, 05:26 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I'm not sure where you are getting that he had no pressure on these passes.  He was sacked six times in those two games, and he didn't have AJ Green for either of them as well.  They were kind of playoff previews of what he would be dealing with. 

(06-24-2015, 05:46 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I didn't post his full stat line for each of those games.

What I posted were his passes in those games where he was under no pressure.

Andy was usually pretty good while under no pressure last year, but I was showing that he still has his confusing moments at times. He surely wasn't picking anyone apart in those two games, even when he wasn't being hurried or hit. When he's having a bad day, it's usually BAD. Hopefully he can do something about that.

(06-25-2015, 10:20 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Maybe that is some PFF stat for QBs (hurries, hits, etc), but you ignore the point about no AJ Green or any WRs that could get separation.  Again, I am just trying to get you to look at the big picture and not just Dalton himself.  I am not trying to say he is top 5, "elite", etc., but what I have seen from him when he is kept clean and he has some weapons is that he can be very, very good. 

For the two games you mention where his ratings were abysmal, I could point out many more where his ratings were phenomenal.  You tend to focus on the two really bad games and two really bad postseason games and label him a dud.  I look at the 40 wins (and that one GD tie that STILL sticks in my craw) in four seasons and think that with a solid TE, WR, and RB corps that he can, in fact, win a Super Bowl. 

(06-25-2015, 10:29 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Where did I ever label him a dud? That's just flat out lying, I've never said he was a bad QB or a "dud".

When did I only focus on those 2 games? I was just showing you statistics that went against your theory. He doesn't always "pick teams apart" when he's kept clean, that's false. I don't dwell on just 2 games of a guy's entire career, that's not my thing, I was just using it as an example to show that he's not always on point even when he's not pressured. Please don't act like 2 of my posts show what I'm "focused on".

Yes, he's not bad without pressure, but most NFL caliber QBs aren't bad without pressure. That's why I can't give Andy too much of a pat on the back for doing something that isn't extraordinary for someone in his position. A starting NFL QB should have decent stats without pressure by the defense.

If you surround him with an extremely talented team or he happens to go on an October 2013-esque tear in the playoffs, I do believe he can be a SB winning quarterback. I've never said otherwise. I just don't know how likely it is for him to do that. If we have injuries on offense, I'm not confident that he can rally the troops and overcome that to win playoff games. I could be wrong, but history is on my side here. You're basing your opinions off of your personal hopes and wishes, I'm basing my opinions off of facts and past events. 40 wins is a team stat, I can't take you seriously if you won't look at individual accomplishments when discussing an individual player. If you want to talk about the Bengals as a whole, yes, 40 wins is great. W/L doesn't belong to a single player.