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+--- Thread: How come we can't find Linebackers who can rush the QB? (/thread-8586.html)
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RE: How come we can't find Linebackers who can rush the QB? - wolfkaosaun - 10-31-2016
We have a hard enough time having defensive ends get to the QB. We need a real pass rusher.
As for OP, yes it is scheme. But at the same time, our LBs can't shed blocks this year. It's been a problem all year round and no one has really been good at it.
RE: How come we can't find Linebackers who can rush the QB? - Derrick - 10-31-2016
(10-31-2016, 05:04 AM)John Shaft Wrote: Linebackers ?Wasn't Marv the Magnificent supposed to be a LB guru in a former life? Well, he AIN"T here!!!
Think anyone would give us a 3rd for Nick Vigil ? (what the Bengals spent)
What ever happened to the "Vigil"antes ?
Franchise simply hasn't done well at the linebacker position. Starters are 2 free agents and RayM
RE: How come we can't find Linebackers who can rush the QB? - Junglejuice - 11-01-2016
(10-31-2016, 05:12 PM)John Shaft Wrote: I have seen Vigil "broken down" in space by offensive skill players the times I've seen him play. In other words, shaken out of his jock strap. That may be why he isn't playing. Adjusting to NFL level quickness and speed may take time for him. Bengals reached
You have to fail sometimes to learn.
Rather the young guy get acclimated than the 36 yr old pro's pro who seems to be getting beat like a drum on the regular.
No where to go but up IMO.
RE: How come we can't find Linebackers who can rush the QB? - rfaulk34 - 11-01-2016
(10-31-2016, 05:12 PM)John Shaft Wrote: I have seen Vigil "broken down" in space by offensive skill players the times I've seen him play. In other words, shaken out of his jock strap. That may be why he isn't playing. Adjusting to NFL level quickness and speed may take time for him. Bengals reached
Vigil is poop. I think it was the Browns game...goal line, there was a monstrous hole for a rushing TD and where was Vigil?
Looking lost, standing around behind another defender, instead of getting around him and trying to fill the hole. *The running back was in the end zone, went back to the sidelines for a quick lunch, then came back out onto the field to give the ref the ball before Vigil could remember what planet he was on and that he was playing in the NFL with the sole purpose of stopping the RB from scoring a TD.
*(slight hyperbole)
RE: How come we can't find Linebackers who can rush the QB? - SunsetBengal - 11-01-2016
People are all ragging about the LBs, and according to the grading in the thread posted by bfine, the LBs had 3 of the top 5 grades on defense in the Washington game.
RE: How come we can't find Linebackers who can rush the QB? - Hoofhearted - 11-01-2016
(11-01-2016, 08:00 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: People are all ragging about the LBs, and according to the grading in the thread posted by bfine, the LBs had 3 of the top 5 grades on defense in the Washington game.
The whole entire defense doesn't look the same. They rank 24 vs the run, 26 vs pass, and and 28th in net yards.
RE: How come we can't find Linebackers who can rush the QB? - SunsetBengal - 11-01-2016
(11-01-2016, 08:12 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: The whole entire defense doesn't look the same. They rank 24 vs the run, 26 vs pass, and and 28th in net yards.
I tried to keep my comment specific to the topic of this thread, since there are so many threads on the defense. And I explained my thoughts in detail, in regard to the defensive woes, in a thread about the defense. This thread is about the LBs specifically, and questioning why they don't pressure the QB. It's pretty obvious that by scheme, LBs have low sack numbers in the 4-3 alignment. If a service that does nothing but watch and grade football performances says that the LBs were 3 of the top 5 performers in the last game, who am I to say otherwise?
RE: How come we can't find Linebackers who can rush the QB? - BengalChris - 11-01-2016
(10-31-2016, 05:04 AM)John Shaft Wrote: Linebackers ?
Think anyone would give us a 3rd for Nick Vigil ? (what the Bengals spent)
What ever happened to the "Vigil"antes ?
Franchise simply hasn't done well at the linebacker position. Starters are 2 free agents and RayM
What ever happened to the "Vigil"antes ? I guess the novelty of rooting for an overdrafted, never heard of before white LB has worn off.
RE: How come we can't find Linebackers who can rush the QB? - Hoofhearted - 11-01-2016
(11-01-2016, 08:25 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I tried to keep my comment specific to the topic of this thread, since there are so many threads on the defense. And I explained my thoughts in detail, in regard to the defensive woes, in a thread about the defense. This thread is about the LBs specifically, and questioning why they don't pressure the QB. It's pretty obvious that by scheme, LBs have low sack numbers in the 4-3 alignment. If a service that does nothing but watch and grade football performances says that the LBs were 3 of the top 5 performers in the last game, who am I to say otherwise?
I gotcha, sunset. I guess I was just saying that it takes a team effort to do these things (rush passer, stop the run, stop the pass, whatever). If you're corners or other position players are poop, then the best pass rush LB in the league will most likely have low sack numbers.
RE: How come we can't find Linebackers who can rush the QB? - kevin - 11-01-2016
(11-01-2016, 11:05 AM)BengalChris Wrote: What ever happened to the "Vigil"antes ? I guess the novelty of rooting for an overdrafted, never heard of before white LB has worn off.
The white LB......and people posting Patriots only have those white receivers and tight ends.....is getting pretty stupid. .....If a guy can play, he can play, I don't care if he is green or polka dot. .....To me a 3rd round pick is not counted on to be a first year starter and more of a futures pick. ...Looking at some of our first rounders like Dennard, Kirkpatrick, Ogbuehi, Jackson, Bengals could be in the worst stretch of 1st round duds in Bengals history....Time will tell.....I expect more of these 1st round picks than the 3rd round picks. ....3 CB's and a Tackle, all of them playing below expectations. Fans sure were all over Joseph and Hall picks and 2nd round Dalton, but for some reason not these 3 CB's.
RE: How come we can't find Linebackers who can rush the QB? - Hammerstripes - 11-01-2016
(10-30-2016, 10:59 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Why do other teams have LB's who can rush the QB. The Steelers and Ravens always have 2-3 of these guys.
I can't even remember the last LB that we had that I consider to be a good pass rusher. Maybe Steve Foley or Takeo Spikes?
The main reason is that the Steelers play a 3-4, so they draft pass rushing LBs. The Ravens used to run one, so they did the same.
The Bengals have run the same 4-3 where they prefer big (280 lb+) defensive ends, so the hybrid guy rarely, if ever, gets drafted.
RE: How come we can't find Linebackers who can rush the QB? - Wyche'sWarrior - 11-01-2016
(11-01-2016, 08:25 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I tried to keep my comment specific to the topic of this thread, since there are so many threads on the defense. And I explained my thoughts in detail, in regard to the defensive woes, in a thread about the defense. This thread is about the LBs specifically, and questioning why they don't pressure the QB. It's pretty obvious that by scheme, LBs have low sack numbers in the 4-3 alignment. If a service that does nothing but watch and grade football performances says that the LBs were 3 of the top 5 performers in the last game, who am I to say otherwise?
You'll have to ask fred about that one.....sometimes PFF is right, and sometimes they are wrong. Depends on how it supports an argument.
RE: How come we can't find Linebackers who can rush the QB? - Wyche'sWarrior - 11-01-2016
(11-01-2016, 11:26 AM)kevin Wrote: The white LB......and people posting Patriots only have those white receivers and tight ends.....is getting pretty stupid. .....If a guy can play, he can play, I don't care if he is green or polka dot. .....To me a 3rd round pick is not counted on to be a first year starter and more of a futures pick. ...Looking at some of our first rounders like Dennard, Kirkpatrick, Ogbuehi, Jackson, Bengals could be in the worst stretch of 1st round duds in Bengals history....Time will tell.....I expect more of these 1st round picks than the 3rd round picks. ....3 CB's and a Tackle, all of them playing below expectations. Fans sure were all over Joseph and Hall picks and 2nd round Dalton, but for some reason not these 3 CB's.
No shit......all I've heard are excuses for those two turds....
(can't get on Jackson yet, he hasn't seen the field)
RE: How come we can't find Linebackers who can rush the QB? - Crowe - 11-01-2016
(10-30-2016, 10:59 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Why do other teams have LB's who can rush the QB. The Steelers and Ravens always have 2-3 of these guys.
I can't even remember the last LB that we had that I consider to be a good pass rusher. Maybe Steve Foley or Takeo Spikes?
The question really should be, why can't we just find linebackers that are good in general?
RE: How come we can't find Linebackers who can rush the QB? - TheUberHuber - 11-01-2016
(11-01-2016, 03:58 PM)Crowe Wrote: The question really should be, why can't we just find linebackers that are good in general?
Because we keep spending draft picks on corners and the fa's are all old and sucky. I didn't think lamur was all that great either. vigil still could end up being decent you never know.
RE: How come we can't find Linebackers who can rush the QB? - Derrick - 11-01-2016
(10-31-2016, 10:23 AM)Au165 Wrote: It is not "more than scheme" it is perception of most fans versus football reality. The most sacks by a LB not in a 3-4 scheme is 2. 4-3 LB's do not get pressure because that is not their job. Even when you send them the reality is they tend to be smaller guys because they have to cover so they don't get "home" very much. OLB in a 3-4 are just more athletic and smaller DEs. Don't compare our LB's to 3-4 LBs compare our DEs to 3-4 LBs and when you do that we are comparable.
Don't compare this statement with me thinking our linebackers are good, because they aren't. They aren't good though because they aren't good at coverage or tackling for that matter, but it isn't because they can't blitz.
What I don't understand is why Marvy Lewis insists on using a 4-3 scheme with big, slow, LBs who are required to, but can't, cover in space. It would seem he needs to change something...
RE: How come we can't find Linebackers who can rush the QB? - phil413 - 11-01-2016
What do you mean we can't find LB's that can rush the QB? Just look across the LOS. Andy sees them on Sunday afternoons and late evenings in his nightmares.
So unless we plan on playing against a faulty OL every week, like others have mentioned the scheme depends on the front 4 getting a push and occasional tweaks rather than rush heavy LB play. Harrison and the failed fit was mentioned, Cousins would have set a record with him out there Sunday am. We're really squandering TWO big rush theats in Geno and Carlos by not getting one more guy that can push the pocket back. I don't care if it's situational even, it just needs to happen.
Provided the defense doesn't run no huddle, how about more Clarke and play MJ and Hunt at DT more? They're used to doing that, lets just see more.
RE: How come we can't find Linebackers who can rush the QB? - fredtoast - 11-02-2016
(11-01-2016, 09:44 PM)Derrick Wrote: What I don't understand is why Marvy Lewis insists on using a 4-3 scheme with big, slow, LBs who are required to, but can't, cover in space. It would seem he needs to change something...
You mean the exact same scheme that has produced 5 top 10 scoring defenses in the last 8 years?