(04-21-2017, 11:24 AM)The Real Deal Wrote: I just personally feel like this "I'm entitled because I bought a bengals T-shirt and a who dey foam finger last year" logic is flawed. You bought that T-shirt and foam finger on your own volition. You tuned in or attended the game on Sunday because of nobody but yourself.

I also think that saying he doesn't care about the fans at all is flawed. Call it a canned letter, fluff, poop on a stick, Call it what you want. But The letter at the top of this thread is proof that he cares. Who am I (or you) to decide his intentions behind the letter? He didn't have to release anything at all. In fact, he may have been better off if he hadn't, which is sad.

This fanbase is jaded and maybe for good reason. We have endured a lot of agony (33 years for me), so I get it. But what I can't wrap my head around is asking for him to show he cares but rejecting his efforts to show said care. No matter what he does unless it is EXACTLY what we want, he can't win. And maybe he has earned that. But For the most part, this team has been competitive for a decade. We have watched some talented teams (that he has had a hand in putting together) pee the bed in the playoffs. the talent has been there though and he has funded it the entire time if I'm not mistaken.

Also, I'm not sure and I'm not willing to do the leg work on the research, but I'm guessing that the cap space numbers are not nearly as eye popping when it comes to cheapness as many want to believe. People really need to leave the 90's in the 90's. The narrative that there hasn't been change when it comes to the front office is simply not true. It is run much differently than it was then. Could it be better? Yep. But I Would wager that most fan bases think this way. Nothing is perfect.

(04-21-2017, 12:10 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I hope other fans don't start attacking you as this board at times hates free speech when they disagree with you. I applaud your post and agree all one can do is offer up sincerity as MB did with this letter. For those who cancel your cable or do anything to stop supporting MB financially, that ship has sailed. He does not need your financial support.

I have stated this before and will state it again, MB wants to win, the Bengals coaches and players want to win and to suggest they don't is delusional. Hate MB for not getting it done, but I do believe his FO, his daughter, and others work every day to win.

Like to hear one name.

(04-21-2017, 09:43 AM)jason Wrote: If any of you think about or talk about Mike Brown more than say 10 times per calendar year, it's a you problem. Evict that old man from your brains. He's lived there rent free for too long.

(04-21-2017, 11:24 AM)The Real Deal Wrote: 1. I just personally feel like this "I'm entitled because I bought a bengals T-shirt and a who dey foam finger last year" logic is flawed. You bought that T-shirt and foam finger on your own volition. You tuned in or attended the game on Sunday because of nobody but yourself.

2. I also think that saying he doesn't care about the fans at all is flawed. Call it a canned letter, fluff, poop on a stick, Call it what you want. But The letter at the top of this thread is proof that he cares. Who am I (or you) to decide his intentions behind the letter? He didn't have to release anything at all. In fact, he may have been better off if he hadn't, which is sad.

3. This fanbase is jaded and maybe for good reason. We have endured a lot of agony (33 years for me), so I get it. But what I can't wrap my head around is asking for him to show he cares but rejecting his efforts to show said care. No matter what he does unless it is EXACTLY what we want, he can't win. And maybe he has earned that. But For the most part, this team has been competitive for a decade. We have watched some talented teams (that he has had a hand in putting together) pee the bed in the playoffs. the talent has been there though and he has funded it the entire time if I'm not mistaken.

4. Also, I'm not sure and I'm not willing to do the leg work on the research, but I'm guessing that the cap space numbers are not nearly as eye popping when it comes to cheapness as many want to believe. People really need to leave the 90's in the 90's. The narrative that there hasn't been change when it comes to the front office is simply not true. It is run much differently than it was then. Could it be better? Yep. But I Would wager that most fan bases think this way. Nothing is perfect.

(04-21-2017, 12:26 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well, i took it different when looking at the letter as a whole and another poster probably had it right when
saying one of the PR people wrote this up for him. I honestly don't think he cares what the fans think, he just
wants the stadium full and fans buying merchandise. I can understand people like Harley here that stopped
buying tickets and pretty much boycotted this place.

But i can also understand your well thought out post and give you reps for it cause you have a lot of reality in
your corner. Some of us are just more passionate than others about this team and it pisses us "fanatics" off
when we are not run even close to a team like the Patriots yet Hobspins alludes to us doing things the same
way. We have had more talent than the Patriots many years yet the coaches cannot get us 1 fricking Playoff
win. Crazy Real Deal, it is crazy.

(04-21-2017, 12:55 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Just because I think the "mike Brown doesn't care about winning and withholds financially because of it" narrative is hogwash, doesn't mean my passion for this team is in question. I'll put my passion for the Cincinnati Bengals right up there with anyone. I lump myself directly into the "fanatic" category, because I, like you and most everyone else on this site, am a diehard. I just can't get behind the mike brown could care less about winning trip.  Because it is just that, tripe.

(04-21-2017, 12:55 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Just because I think the "mike Brown doesn't care about winning and withholds financially because of it" narrative is hogwash, doesn't mean my passion for this team is in question. I'll put my passion for the Cincinnati Bengals right up there with anyone. I lump myself directly into the "fanatic" category, because I, like you and most everyone else on this site, am a diehard. I just can't get behind the mike brown could care less about winning tripe. Because it is just that, tripe.

(04-21-2017, 12:55 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Just because I think the "mike Brown doesn't care about winning and withholds financially because of it" narrative is hogwash, doesn't mean my passion for this team is in question. I'll put my passion for the Cincinnati Bengals right up there with anyone. I lump myself directly into the "fanatic" category, because I, like you and most everyone else on this site, am a diehard. I just can't get behind the mike brown could care less about winning tripe. Because it is just that, tripe.

(04-21-2017, 01:09 PM)Sabretooth Wrote: MB may care about winning, but the results year after year,decade after decade, seem to indicate he doesn't know how.

(04-21-2017, 01:31 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Nobody said he doesn't care about winning. I think I can speak for others by saying he doesn't put winning above all else.

(04-21-2017, 12:49 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This is a Bengals message board. Mike Brown is the owner and GM of the Bengals. I wonder how often Jerry Jones is a topic on Cowboys message boards?




1. It's easy to write a letter when he's desperately trying to make sure the stadium isn't half empty for the 50th anniversary......

2. Like I've been saying...he hasn't done all he can to win, and he's shown extreme loyalty to embarrassments like Pacman. Am I wrong? If not, why are you questioning my questioning of Mike's letter?

3. Ya think? Yeah, he has earned every bit of criticism thrown his way, and I'm not going to feel guilty for feeling the way I do. The Bengals are 165-216-3 (.434) during my span as a fan. Obviously 0-7 in the playoffs. Sorry I'm not happy about it. I could've left for another team or stayed and *****. I opted to stay and *****. 

4. Our most recent record was 6-9-1. You say "leave the 90's in the 90's", but for how long are people like you going to bring up being "competitive" for most of the last decade (which happens to include 4 losing seasons)? Even if you only include Marv's tenure (leaving the 90's in the 90's), then our record is 118-103-3 (.533) with no playoff wins in 14 seasons. No fan base would be happy with that, Real Deal. None. That's mediocre regular season results mixed with record setting failure in the playoffs. Why should I be happy with that? Please tell me.

(04-21-2017, 12:49 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This is a Bengals message board. Mike Brown is the owner and GM of the Bengals. I wonder how often Jerry Jones is a topic on Cowboys message boards?


1. It's not about entitlement brother. This is just the way it goes with any product or service. If you're paying for cable and it keeps going out, you're going to complain. Nintendo fans have been pissed about the availability of the NES classic and the Switch (and Nintendo's aloof attitude towards the scarcity). People have complained about McDonald's for years. Maybe you could call it consumer feedback. I love the Bengals, but I want them to be better.

2. It's easy to write a letter when he's desperately trying to make sure the stadium isn't half empty for the 50th anniversary. I'm obviously far from alone on this, but as someone who has been around since the 90's, I have trouble believing he cares so deeply about fans and the city. Like I've been saying...he hasn't done all he can to win, and he's shown extreme loyalty to embarrassments like Pacman. Am I wrong? If not, why are you questioning my questioning of Mike's letter?

3. Ya think? Yeah, he has earned every bit of criticism thrown his way, and I'm not going to feel guilty for feeling the way I do. The Bengals are 165-216-3 (.434) during my span as a fan. Obviously 0-7 in the playoffs. Sorry I'm not happy about it. I could've left for another team or stayed and *****. I opted to stay and *****. 

4. Our most recent record was 6-9-1. You say "leave the 90's in the 90's", but for how long are people like you going to bring up being "competitive" for most of the last decade (which happens to include 4 losing seasons)? Even if you only include Marv's tenure (leaving the 90's in the 90's), then our record is 118-103-3 (.533) with no playoff wins in 14 seasons. No fan base would be happy with that, Real Deal. None. That's mediocre regular season results mixed with record setting failure in the playoffs. Why should I be happy with that? Please tell me.

I'm sure most fan bases do feel their team could be better, but outside of Cleveland and Detroit, no team has dealt with what we've dealt with over the last 20+ years. Not many teams haven't won a single playoff game over the last 14 years, either. Buffalo, Detroit, Cleveland...and maybe a couple others. We are in pretty exclusive company. Until Mike fixes this by doing what it takes to field a real championship contender, he's going to have folks questioning his intentions.

(04-21-2017, 01:59 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: 1. Again, who is anyone to question the letter released? Speculate all you want about his intentions, but in the end it is just that, speculation. What is so wrong about taking something at face value?

2. Trust me, I can't stand pacman jones anymore and wish he was gone. But did you ever stop to think that maybe jones is still on the team because they WANT TO WIN? You know, because he has been our best CB. You think he's still there because the CB's behind him are all essentially question marks for one reason or another? How many millions of dollars could Mike brown have lined his pockets with by cutting jones? If he was all about winning wouldn't he cut him and just pocket that money? seems to me the cheap argument doesn't hold any water when it comes to this. It's actually  the exact opposite. In this instance I fully believe he is being loyal to talent because the team is better with jones, plain and simple. (I.E. he wants to win).

3. Let's clear one thing up, I'm not content with what this team has accomplished. I want more. But I can't and won't get behind the thought that mike brown doesn't care about winning and that is why it isn't happening. Over the last 5 or 6 years especially, There have been multiple years that this team has been labeled as one of, if not the most, talent laden teams in the NFL. Who was behind those rosters? Who funded them? What else can he do? as I said before, the talent has been there, he can't score the TD's for them.

(04-21-2017, 02:15 PM)jason Wrote: Not that I disagree with you. I didn't mean to come off as putting anybody or this thread down. It's just that some (not you) seem to let that old man ruin their enjoyment of the team. I  read a lot of "I'm done" with this or that. At one time, he got on my nerves too. But there ain't a damn thing I can do to change his ways. So I just enjoy "his" product.

I do find it silly to instantly dismiss this letter though. Hell I've heard time and again that he will actually respond to anybody with enough time on their hands to write him. How many owners do that? I do get it though... It'd be real nice to see a season last 19 weeks or more sometime soon... Maybe we just have to "clean some things up, do a better job on third down, and keep grinding" Shake... Haha

(04-21-2017, 01:59 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: 1. Again, who is anyone to question the letter released? Speculate all you want about his intentions, but in the end it is just that, speculation. What is so wrong about taking something at face value?

2. Trust me, I can't stand pacman jones anymore and wish he was gone. But did you ever stop to think that maybe jones is still on the team because they WANT TO WIN? You know, because he has been our best CB. You think he's still there because the CB's behind him are all essentially question marks for one reason or another? How many millions of dollars could Mike brown have lined his pockets with by cutting jones? If he was all about winning wouldn't he cut him and just pocket that money? seems to me the cheap argument doesn't hold any water when it comes to this. It's actually the exact opposite. In this instance I fully believe he is being loyal to talent because the team is better with jones, plain and simple. (I.E. he wants to win).

3. Let's clear one thing up, I'm not content with what this team has accomplished. I want more. But I can't and won't get behind the thought that mike brown doesn't care about winning and that is why it isn't happening. Over the last 5 or 6 years especially, There have been multiple years that this team has been labeled as one of, if not the most, talent laden teams in the NFL. Who was behind those rosters? Who funded them? What else can he do? as I said before, the talent has been there, he can't score the TD's for them.

(04-21-2017, 03:37 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. Because I'm bitter with Mike Brown. I wish I could take the letter at face value, and maybe he does really feel that way...but with the way he runs the team, it's hard not to question it.

2. Maybe in the short term Pacman "was" helping us win. I believe his play has slipped. He wasn't our best CB last year and he got burned more than any Bengals CB I can remember since Leon Hall was a rookie. He's no longer a return threat. WJ3 was a 1st round pick with 4.37 speed. I want to see that guy on the field. At this point, I think Pacman's negatives outweigh his positives.

3. Again, I never said Mike doesn't care about winning. I've been saying that he doesn't place winning first. The assembled roster was fantastic until it started falling apart last year (and now this year). Obviously the roster is only part of the equation though. He could've fired Marvin Lewis or at the very least Paul Alexander. He could build a practice bubble. He could've spent a bit more in free agency in at least one of the years where this core was ripe. No he can't score TDs for them, but he can hold coaches accountable when they don't get results with said talent. 


It's all good. I get what you're saying man, but I guess I just can't set that dark cloud aside. I'm fully aware that Mike Brown is a massive hindrance to this team's chances, and there's no way for me to ignore that. Of course after the draft and getting closer to September, I'll start to feel more optimistic as usual (although even my preseason optimism has been waning over the last few years), but lately there's only been negative news (keeping all coaches in place, terrible FA period, weak 50th anniversary plans, etc).

(04-21-2017, 04:09 PM)jason Wrote: Yep... It's our circle of life. I was at my lowest point after Dallas donkey punched us in like week 5... I spent the rest of the season belittling the coaches and every player not named AJ Green... I looked on in horror as we slapped the Eagles around and began to ruin our draft position. Then for the second consecutive year I ignored the rest of the postseason. My recovery coincided with the suicides following the departure of Whitworth and Zeitler.... Now, as the draft approaches, I feel the itch starting. After I boo our first round pick (a tradition that has only been interupped by AJ Green, Tyler Eifert, and Dennard of all people), I will claim the rest of the draft was a success. Then when our second stringers stomp Tampa Bay, it will be on.... Until January, or an embarrassing loss with the season on the line.

(04-21-2017, 09:43 AM)jason Wrote: If any of you think about or talk about Mike Brown more than say 10 times per calendar year, it's a you problem. Evict that old man from your brains. He's lived there rent free for too long.

(04-21-2017, 06:19 AM)Sabretooth Wrote: That would be cleveland sir.

(04-21-2017, 03:37 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. Because I'm bitter with Mike Brown. I wish I could take the letter at face value, and maybe he does really feel that way...but with the way he runs the team, it's hard not to question it.

2. Maybe in the short term Pacman "was" helping us win. I believe his play has slipped. He wasn't our best CB last year and he got burned more than any Bengals CB I can remember since Leon Hall was a rookie. He's no longer a return threat. WJ3 was a 1st round pick with 4.37 speed. I want to see that guy on the field. At this point, I think Pacman's negatives outweigh his positives.

3. Again, I never said Mike doesn't care about winning. I've been saying that he doesn't place winning first. The assembled roster was fantastic until it started falling apart last year (and now this year). Obviously the roster is only part of the equation though. He could've fired Marvin Lewis or at the very least Paul Alexander. He could build a practice bubble. He could've spent a bit more in free agency in at least one of the years where this core was ripe. No he can't score TDs for them, but he can hold coaches accountable when they don't get results with said talent. 


It's all good. I get what you're saying man, but I guess I just can't set that dark cloud aside. I'm fully aware that Mike Brown is a massive hindrance to this team's chances, and there's no way for me to ignore that. Of course after the draft and getting closer to September, I'll start to feel more optimistic as usual (although even my preseason optimism has been waning over the last few years), but lately there's only been negative news (keeping all coaches in place, terrible FA period, weak 50th anniversary plans, etc).

(04-21-2017, 06:02 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: That team has 8 championships. I count the NFL before the merger unlike a lot of people.

(04-21-2017, 05:49 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: Sorry Jason, but this is a candidate for worst post of the year.    It's a Bengals message board.  Mike Brown's the owner of the Bengals.  He's also the guy making the decisions that show that winning for him is about the team's bottom line, not the Super Bowl.  I swear I am not trying to hurt your feelings, but pretending like he doesn't exist is bordering on insanity.  

(04-20-2017, 10:41 PM)Wyche Wrote: You mean Paul Brown.....right?  **** Mike Clown.....and **** his piss poor excuse of a letter of appreciation.  Win at least a goddamn playoff game ffs.  ***** greedy....egotistical....2 bit piece of shit failure.