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+--- Thread: Some interesting info on John Ross (/thread-11006.html)
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - 'E' - 04-28-2017
My problems with this pick.
1. He looks frail. His injury history indicates that he is frail.
2. He is just too physically weak. Can he overcome that to beat NFL corners jamming him at the line, or trying to knock him off his routes ?
3. I just don't see this guy offering anything at all between the hashes. He has the look of a big play waiting to happen, with alot more waiting than happening.
Not saying he's a bad player, but I don't see a complete WR here, and we needed a big impact out of this #9 overall pick. I hope he can deliver that.
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - Shake n Blake - 04-28-2017
E Wrote:My problems with this pick.
1. He looks frail. His injury history indicates that he is frail.
2. He is just too physically weak. Can he overcome that to beat NFL corners jamming him at the line, or trying to knock him off his routes ?
3. I just don't see this guy offering anything at all between the hashes. He has the look of a big play waiting to happen, with alot more waiting than happening.
Not saying he's a bad player, but I don't see a complete WR here, and we needed a big impact out of this #9 overall pick. I hope he can deliver that.
So you're not buying the scouting reports on him? Because most of what you say runs contrary to the scouting reports.
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - sonofstat - 04-28-2017
(04-28-2017, 01:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Same here, Erickson led the league in yardage i think?
Ross is definately much faster but as Lone Bengal said we shouldn't risk the guy getting hurt returning Kicks.
Maybe Punts in huge moments, maybe.
Just cause AB does it doesn't mean it is smart.
I do not get the logic of not using him on KO returns to be honest.
If we don't use him on KO returns then is that not limiting his touches and ability to make splash plays??...i.e the whole reason for drafting him?
He's a #9 selection - runs 4.2 - and has returned KO's for TDs.....he's not our WR1, our TE when fit is typically our primary red zone threat, we still have Boyd/LaFell who will get a lot of snaps. I say get him the ball in his hands any which way you can.
If we are that worried about him being an injury risk that we are going to protect him from KO's then you sure as hell should not draft him at #9.....first time he goes across the middle .vs. Shazier he's going to see contact , can't protect him from that
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - THE PISTONS - 04-28-2017
We should be able to do some 4 WR sets with Eifert at TE this year.
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - 'E' - 04-28-2017
(04-28-2017, 02:12 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So you're not buying the scouting reports on him? Because most of what you say runs contrary to the scouting reports.
I have read that he struggles against physical play, and has below average strength. On tape I see him making hay when he can run free, or catch a pass uncontested. That won't happen nearly as easily in the NFL. I think at best, he is another T.Y. Hilton. Good player, but worth #9 ?
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - BengalHawk62 - 04-28-2017
I wouldn't use him at all in the kick or punt returns. No Way! No How! He is strictly a WR on this team.
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - Shake n Blake - 04-28-2017
E Wrote:I have read that he struggles against physical play, and has below average strength. On tape I see him making hay when he can run free, or catch a pass uncontested. That won't happen nearly as easily in the NFL. I think at best, he is another T.Y. Hilton. Good player, but worth #9 ?
The 3 bolded things I have seen in scouting reports as his weaknesses, but not some of the other stuff you mentioned. Like having a frail build, only being valuable for big plays, being useless between the hashes, not being a complete WR, etc. If you only look at the weaknesses, sure you start to question whether he's worth it. But his positives are off the charts, and that's why he was viewed as a top 10 pick.
- Possibly the fastest player ever.
- Locates and tracks the deep ball extremely well
- Runs many routes well, isn't just a speed specialist...apparently excellent on slants
- Good hands
- Great feet with a killer double move (think Chad Johnson here)
- as quick as he is fast
The weaknesses that I think should cause the most worry are (a) obviously the injuries and (b) strength against press. That said, if you play up on him and he beats you...you may as well say "bye". I think teams will likely respect his speed and play off him, which will open up plenty of uncontested stuff underneath. Tbh, a big chunk of NFL passes aren't contested. Those are typically the ones that get completed. He also needs to come back to the ball more, which has been a big problem for our receivers in the past.
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - BengalChris - 04-28-2017
(04-28-2017, 11:37 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The Pro Football Focus scouting report:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-john-ross-wr-washington/
______________________
From Rotoworld before the draft:
I'm thinking this particular executive was likely talking about depth of the class, as the top 3 WRs were viewed as some of the cream of this draft regardless of position.
Just found it interesting that so many scouts actually considered Ross the best WR in this draft.
Teams with a good press corner will press him all day and night. Teams that don't will give him the underneath stuff. All defenses will make him pay for catching it over the middle.
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 04-28-2017
(04-28-2017, 03:12 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Teams with a good press corner will press him all day and night. Teams that don't will give him the underneath stuff. All defenses will make him pay for catching it over the middle.
Let them press him all day and all night. He will get loose once and he is gone.
He takes great angles and was the BEST slant receiver in college last year. He knows how to protect himself.
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 04-28-2017
(04-28-2017, 02:24 PM)sonofstat Wrote: I do not get the logic of not using him on KO returns to be honest.
If we don't use him on KO returns then is that not limiting his touches and ability to make splash plays??...i.e the whole reason for drafting him?
He's a #9 selection - runs 4.2 - and has returned KO's for TDs.....he's not our WR1, our TE when fit is typically our primary red zone threat, we still have Boyd/LaFell who will get a lot of snaps. I say get him the ball in his hands any which way you can.
If we are that worried about him being an injury risk that we are going to protect him from KO's then you sure as hell should not draft him at #9.....first time he goes across the middle .vs. Shazier he's going to see contact , can't protect him from that
I would understand this a bit if Erickson was a bad Returner but he lead the NFL in Kick return yards last year.
Erickson ain't no punk, give the guy a chance.
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - Shake n Blake - 04-28-2017
(04-28-2017, 03:12 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Teams with a good press corner will press him all day and night. Teams that don't will give him the underneath stuff. All defenses will make him pay for catching it over the middle.
Let them press. He needs to learn to beat it, and once he does, teams will pay dearly for pressing.
Teams that don't press and allow the underneath stuff is fine as well. Plus he can outrun guys even if they play off.
All receivers "pay" for catching passes over the middle. So that's not exclusive to Ross.
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - rfaulk34 - 04-28-2017
So when a guy like Sanu is big and physical but lacks speed and can't get consistent separation, people complain that he's not going to be good enough because he can't separate.
But when a guy like Ross has speed to burn, great feet and runs good routes--which makes separation inherent--he's not physical enough to get off blocks so he's not going to be good enough because he's not physical enough.
I guess the much talked about but overhyped "separation" argument is pretty much invalid regardless...
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 04-28-2017
(04-28-2017, 03:42 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: So when a guy like Sanu is big and physical but lacks speed and can't get consistent separation, people complain that he's not going to be good enough because he can't separate.
But when a guy like Ross has speed to burn, great feet and runs good routes--which makes separation inherent--he's not physical enough to get off blocks so he's not going to be good enough because he's not physical enough.
I guess the much talked about but overhyped "separation" argument is pretty much invalid regardless...
I guess if someone just does not like someone, they don't like someone.
Even if he is exactly what we need.
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - sonofstat - 04-28-2017
(04-28-2017, 03:32 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I would understand this a bit if Erickson was a bad Returner but he lead the NFL in Kick return yards last year.
Erickson ain't no punk, give the guy a chance.
Not saying that at all...just I'm excited to see what Ross can do given the chance.
Pointless drafting someone at #9 who has the fastest speed recorded ever plus a history of KO return TD's then not give him the chance to help based on 'he could get injured' fears....if he can't beat Erickson out of a return job then fine (though if a UDFA beats out our #9 pick then the whole question of draft value gets raised)
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - Sled21 - 04-28-2017
Best thing about his injuries, they happened while he was young...
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - masonbengals fan - 04-28-2017
I will say the more I watch/read about him the more comfortable I am with him. Like that means anything.......
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 04-28-2017
(04-28-2017, 06:00 PM)sonofstat Wrote: Not saying that at all...just I'm excited to see what Ross can do given the chance.
Pointless drafting someone at #9 who has the fastest speed recorded ever plus a history of KO return TD's then not give him the chance to help based on 'he could get injured' fears....if he can't beat Erickson out of a return job then fine (though if a UDFA beats out our #9 pick then the whole question of draft value gets raised)
Ross was drafted to get us TD's, not just field position that Erickson is already good at.
I understand what you are saying, i just want Ross to concentrate on being a Receiver right off the bat and getting 100%
before throwing him out there as returner. This guy will be one hell of a Red Zone threat if he can be healthy.
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 04-28-2017
(04-28-2017, 06:19 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: I will say the more I watch/read about him the more comfortable I am with him. Like that means anything.......
Does mean something, i respect your opinion man and love this pick.
Want you on board.
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - bonesaw - 04-28-2017
This dude got Ochocinco feet and moves....plus best ever speed. Just watched a video and the DB was playing about 15 off of him and he still almost made him fall down when he put his move on him. they were playing Colorado
RE: Some interesting info on John Ross - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 04-28-2017
(04-28-2017, 06:45 PM)bonesaw Wrote: This dude got Ochocinco feet and moves....plus best ever speed. Just watched a video and the DB was playing about 15 off of him and he still almost made him fall down when he put his move on him. they were playing Colorado
I see some Chad Johnson in him with his feet, hands and crisp routes. Just hope he is clutch.
I think Ross could be great honestly.