(07-18-2017, 03:41 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Right, I agree it worked out for both parties. It wasn't so much that we lost Carson. It has more to do with the fact that the organization made him feel like it was in a hopeless situation. That's the blunder. Likely, it was several small blunders the organization did that made Carson want out. Carson was arguably the biggest name to demand a trade, but he wasn't the only one. See below

Bingo. Add Chad and TJ to that list, Dan wilkinson... Who else?  

(07-18-2017, 03:59 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: It took Dre his 5th season to be any good. That's not how 17th overall picks are supposed to go. Lol... Glad he's okay now (presumably, who knows how he'll react to getting paid, he performed in his contract year only) but it still wasn't a good pick.

I really can't figure out Gio. I jump between thinking he's just an okay backup, and him being a good RB who simply is misused by this team. I still think he'd probably be a star if he played for Sean Payton or Belichick, but I don't know if that'd be just because of their systems. Either way, I think we can agree he's not as good of a RB as Bell. Admittedly a much nicer person, though.

You're looking at the 5 playoffs in a row wrongly, though, in my opinion at least. It's not a Palmer/Dalton things. Mike Zimmer came in 2008. The Bengals then went to the playoffs in 4 of his 6 seasons here. Even today Guenther is a Zimmer product using players Zimmer gathered, running a system made by Zimmer. Don't forget how bad the Bengals D was from '03-'07 under Lewis.

Yup, my argument wasn't that the Palmer trade was a blunder. Just who they selected with the picks.

(07-18-2017, 04:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: How could I forget selecting Jerome Simpson over DeSean Jackson?! ::vomit::

(07-18-2017, 04:57 PM)Wyche Wrote: Or Chris Perry over Steven Jackson....

(07-18-2017, 03:08 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Since the face of the franchise, the franchise QB, actually walked away from tens of millions of $$$ rather than play another down for this organization, I'd say yes. That is a huge blunder. 

Granted, it worked out for both parties but the point remains. How many players demand trades/threaten retirement and actively follow through? 

(07-18-2017, 04:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Not many people thought Bell would be as good as he has been. I sure didn't. Bell's biggest issue entering the draft was he was really big. The weight loss really helped him become the RB he is today. But I'm not so sure Bell would have been the same RB in Cincy as he became in Pittsburgh because of potentially a different usage, less/different emphasis on strength/conditioning, etc.

The problem with Gio was he was drafted to be a tandem RB to BJGE, not a bellcow starter. In that role, he was drafted properly. But the Bengals really should have been looking for someone to replace BJGE completely, not just a COP guy. I expect Gio to be a nice complementary piece to Joe Mixon.

Regarding the playoffs, I get what you're saying in that perhaps that's not fair to Palmer because the defense played a huge part in the Dalton-led Bengals getting to the playoffs. But I view it as Dalton + Kirkpatrick + Bernard was about as good or even better than Palmer + [2011 2nd round draft pick]. Palmer just doesn't seem hands-down better than Dalton to me.

(07-18-2017, 03:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: But it's not like DK and Bernard have been terrible. They've been overall solid players with some bumps and bruises along the way.
The way I view it is that if Palmer didn't demand a trade and sit out, the Bengals wouldn't have drafted Dalton and also not have received those picks.
Keeping Palmer, IMO, would likely not have resulted in any better situation for the Bengals. In fact, it could have been worse than five playoff appearances in a row, as Palmer only had two from 2004 through 2010 (2005, 2009).

If you're going to say there was a blunder, it was the selections of DK and/or Bernard over some better players, not the Palmer trade itself.

(07-18-2017, 04:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Honestly - Pickens, Dillon, Spikes, TJ, Johnson, Palmer, Joseph all were disgruntled here. That speaks volumes to the organization quality. They can't all just be loose canons.

(07-18-2017, 07:59 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: A lot of coaching decisions are tempting... no Walsh, no Wyche, keeping Lewis which squandered having a SB-talent team.

I still can't imagine the answer being anything but the refusal to trade with the Saints being the answer, though. Their entire set of 1999 picks, their 1st round pick in 2000 and 2001, and their 2nd round pick in 2002.

Turned down three 1st round picks, and two 2nd round picks (plus more) in order to draft Akili Smith. Is there anything worse than that? The holocaust.... maybe.

(07-18-2017, 08:40 PM)jason Wrote: Didn't they essentially pay Lavernius Coles the same amount they didn't want to give to TJ?

(07-18-2017, 08:40 PM)jason Wrote: Didn't they essentially pay Lavernius Coles the same amount they didn't want to give to TJ?

(07-18-2017, 05:40 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Sure Palmer + 2nd rounder for Dalton + Kirkpatrick + Gio is most likely a net improvement or at least a wash, but wouldn't have been interesting to see what Palmer could have done with AJ Green, Marvin Jones, Tyler Eifert, Jermaine Gresham, and Zimmer's defense?

(07-18-2017, 07:33 PM)clevelandsdad Wrote: I think my choice might be the most overlooked blunder in Bengals history:

Andy's thumb-breaking INT against the Steelers in 2015.

Literally cost us a 1 seed, a likely matchup with KC in the divisional round, and a very good shot at winning the Super Bowl. I'm still convinced we were the best team in the league that year, and Carolina would have stood no chance against us in the Super Bowl.

But Andy throws a bonehead pick in the red zone, then goes for the tackle which put him out for the season. Classic.

(07-19-2017, 02:41 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Cincinnati sports, man. Reminds me of 2012 when Johnny Cueto screwed up his back in the divisional round vs the Giants. They went on to win the world series that year. 

(07-19-2017, 01:49 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Wouldn't that be similar to what he's done with Larry Fitzgerald, John Brown, David Johnson, Michael Floyd, JJ Nelson, Jermaine Gresham and that defense in AZ? The numbers between Dalton and Palmer are remarkably similar over the last 4 years (during Palmer's AZ stint):

Palmer
92.0 passer rating
14,804 pass yards
96 TDs to 50 INTs

Dalton
91.7 passer rating
15,147 pass yards
95 TDs to 52 INTs

Nevermind that Dalton is able to run when needed or escape the pocket and get yards (678 yards and 13 TDs rushing - compared to 90 yards and 1 TD for Palmer) which has been a handy trait lately. Honestly, I'd say the weapons are a wash and Palmer has had the better coach, so I don't see why people think he'd somehow do better in Andy's situation.