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+--- Thread: Ross expected to debut afterall.... (/thread-12443.html)
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - TheLeonardLeap - 09-14-2017
(09-14-2017, 03:04 PM)PhilHos Wrote: The point wasn't about his production but on HOW he produced. Ross produced not just through deep ball receptions. Yet, some people on here see him as only a deep threat. He could potentially be more than that.
Ok, HOW he produced. Tim Tebow had a 66.4% completion rate in his college career including 67.8% his senior year. That number was 47.9% in his NFL career. He had a career 9.3 YPA in college with a full season high of 10.6 YPA. That number was 6.7 YPA in his NFL career.
College would have suggested that Tebow would have been a very accurate passer who could constantly sling it deep.
But the NFL is often a different reality.
- - - - - -
Interestingly did you know that Houshmandzadeh averaged 15.4 yards per catch in college? Meanwhile DeSean Jackson averaged 15.0 yards per catch in college.
Yet in the NFL those numbers are 11.5 for Housh and 17.7 for Jackson.
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - PhilHos - 09-14-2017
(09-14-2017, 03:26 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Ok, HOW he produced. Tim Tebow had a 66.4% completion rate in his college career including 67.8% his senior year. That number was 47.9% in his NFL career. He had a career 9.3 YPA in college with a full season high of 10.6 YPA. That number was 6.7 YPA in his NFL career.
College would have suggested that Tebow would have been a very accurate passer who could constantly sling it deep.
But the NFL is often a different reality.
- - - - - -
Interestingly did you know that Houshmandzadeh averaged 15.4 yards per catch in college? Meanwhile DeSean Jackson averaged 15.0 yards per catch in college.
Yet in the NFL those numbers are 11.5 for Housh and 17.7 for Jackson.
I get that the NFL is different. But, if you were known as being a more complete receiver in college, why would people suddenly think you're only a deep threat in the NFL BEFORE you play any regular season games?
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - Shake n Blake - 09-14-2017
2016 Deep Passing
-Pass traveled 31-40 yards-
Dalton: 7-15-318-1-0 (115.3 rating)
Rodgers: 4-15-195-2-0 (118.8 rating)
Stafford: 2-10-73-1-0 (90.8 rating)
Brady: 3-12-154-1-0 (106.9 rating)
-Pass traveled 40+ yards-
Dalton: 3-6-153-2-0 (135.4 rating)
Rodgers: 2-10-110-0-1 (33.3 rating)
Stafford: 4-8-228-0-0 (95.8 rating)
Brady: 2-6-116-1-1 ((81.9 rating)
Before anyone even bothers trying to discredit these numbers, yes...this is through the air, no YAC.
Of these 4 QB's (the only ones I searched for...I picked the 2 best QB's in the NFL + the one with the strongest arm), Dalton not only had the best completion %, but the best passer rating on deep throws. No one hits deep balls "consistently" though. It's a low % pass for a reason.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/14012/year/2016 (Dalton)
http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/2330/year/2016 (Brady)
http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/12483/year/2016 (Stafford)
http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/8439/year/2016 (Rodgers)
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - reuben.ahmed - 09-14-2017
I've seen stats that differ, as Sean Spicer says, you can argue facts, lol...
Seriously though I have, put Dalton at the bottom 5 of the league in deep ball "catchable" accuracy. Nothing we've seen in pre-season or this year speaks otherwise. Doesn't really matter, if you try and put Dalton, Rodgers, and Brady in the same sentence it's a stretch of any sort.
Dalton needs a good offensive line, Rodgers can get away with a poorer one. Brady would be toast on this team. He doesn't get in those situations normally because he has Billy as a HC and not marvin.
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - Shake n Blake - 09-14-2017
(09-14-2017, 03:46 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I've seen stats that differ, as Sean Spicer says, you can argue facts, lol...
Seriously though I have, put Dalton at the bottom 5 of the league in deep ball "catchable" accuracy. Nothing we've seen in pre-season or this year speaks otherwise. Doesn't really matter, if you try and put Dalton, Rodgers, and Brady in the same sentence it's a stretch of any sort.
Dalton needs a good offensive line, Rodgers can get away with a poorer one. Brady would be toast on this team. He doesn't get in those situations normally because he has Billy as a HC and not marvin.
Blah blah blah. I brought the facts and now you're all over the place.
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - TheLeonardLeap - 09-14-2017
(09-14-2017, 03:43 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 2016 Deep Passing
-Pass traveled 31-40 yards-
Dalton: 7-15-318-1-0 (115.3 rating)
Rodgers: 4-15-195-2-0 (118.8 rating)
Stafford: 2-10-73-1-0 (90.8 rating)
Brady: 3-12-154-1-0 (106.9 rating)
-Pass traveled 40+ yards-
Dalton: 3-6-153-2-0 (135.4 rating)
Rodgers: 2-10-110-0-1 (33.3 rating)
Stafford: 4-8-228-0-0 (95.8 rating)
Brady: 2-6-116-1-1 ((81.9 rating)
Before anyone even bothers trying to discredit these numbers, yes...this is through the air, no YAC.
Of these 4 QB's (the only ones I searched for...I picked the 2 best QB's in the NFL + the one with the strongest arm), Dalton not only had the best completion %, but the best passer rating on deep throws. No one hits deep balls "consistently" though. It's a low % pass for a reason.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/14012/year/2016 (Dalton)
http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/2330/year/2016 (Brady)
http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/12483/year/2016 (Stafford)
http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/8439/year/2016 (Rodgers)
(09-14-2017, 03:46 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I've seen stats that differ, as Sean Spicer says, you can argue facts, lol...
Seriously though I have, put Dalton at the bottom 5 of the league in deep ball "catchable" accuracy. Nothing we've seen in pre-season or this year speaks otherwise. Doesn't really matter, if you try and put Dalton, Rodgers, and Brady in the same sentence it's a stretch of any sort.
Dalton needs a good offensive line, Rodgers can get away with a poorer one. Brady would be toast on this team. He doesn't get in those situations normally because he has Billy as a HC and not marvin.
Hmmm... which one should I believe. The one that uses statistical backing from a relatively creditable source, or the guy who just says "seriously" as if that alone indeed makes it a serious counter-argument that doesn't need any kind of proof or evidence backing it.
Tough call.... tough call indeed.
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - TKUHL - 09-14-2017
(09-14-2017, 12:34 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Yes. But if we manufacturer a bunch of touches where he is getting smacked by LBs and DLs he may not last long.
Let him use his quickness to get open in space. Getting him the ball behind the LoS so 11 defenders can come down hill to rag doll him is not going to do him any favors.
Exactly!
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - Bengal Dude - 09-14-2017
I'm expecting at least two WR screens and an end around tonight.
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - Millhouse - 09-14-2017
(09-14-2017, 03:09 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Kid missed exactly 1 game in his NFL career, hasn't played a snap yet, and minds are already made up.
Can you really blame Bengal fans for expecting the worst while hoping for hope? Maybe if Ross didnt miss pretty much all of the off-season, to only come in and get hurt the first time he was tackled*, people would be singing a different tune about our #9 pick overall.
* was that his first time tackled in that preseason game? I forget, just know he was isnt in there for long though.
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - SHRacerX - 09-14-2017
(09-14-2017, 01:18 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I like the nickname The Flash for him. Hope he's 100% and can prove it.
I either want the "BEEP BEEP" of the Road Runner or "FLASH" by Queen any time he scores. Doesn't have to be the full song, just something to have a little fun and get the crowd laughing and enjoying the game.
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - SHRacerX - 09-14-2017
(09-14-2017, 01:32 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Don't know how far off he started, but he was step-for-step with him.
He was, until Ross saw the ball sailing overhead, and in about .5 second, Ross took off and pulled away like the guy wasn't even there. That extra gear to adjust to the throw is something he has in spades.
I don't blame people for being down on him. When you look at the Bengal's most recent first rounders, it is a who's-who of no-impact-in-year-one guys. That isn't Ross's fault, but he still was the biggest playmaker coming out of college and I can't wait to see him.
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - SHRacerX - 09-14-2017
(09-14-2017, 02:01 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Those deep ball throws to Core last weekend were pretty bad.
One was about three yards deep, and he didn't have room to step in to it so he flung is pretty hard. The other should have been caught, first down at the 5 yard line. He got two hands on it.
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - Shake n Blake - 09-14-2017
(09-14-2017, 04:53 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Can you really blame Bengal fans for expecting the worst while hoping for hope? Maybe if Ross didnt miss pretty much all of the off-season, to only come in and get hurt the first time he was tackled*, people would be singing a different tune about our #9 pick overall.
* was that his first time tackled in that preseason game? I forget, just know he was isnt in there for long though.
Bashing the o-line early in the season, after it was awful all of last season? Makes sense, as we have previous evidence.
Bashing Marv or Paul Alexander? Sure, there's a mountain of evidence.
Bashing Eifert or Hill? Sure. Plenty of evidence.
Bashing Ross, calling him glass, saying he can't get open deep? Doesn't make sense, as we don't have enough evidence.
I understand some worry, but don't you think things are just a little over the top? When the guy has missed 1 game in his career? He ran one go route and we're saying he can't get open? It almost seems like some are eager for him to fail. Maybe some don't mean it that way, but it sure looks that way when you're bashing a kid from the moment he's drafted and before he ever touches a field.
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - ochocincos - 09-14-2017
(09-14-2017, 05:08 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: One was about three yards deep, and he didn't have room to step in to it so he flung is pretty hard. The other should have been caught, first down at the 5 yard line. He got two hands on it.
I didn't record the game and am too lazy to try to find again, so I'll take your word for it.
All I was thinking when Dalton threw those deep balls to Core was, "If it was AJ, it would have been caught."
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - SHRacerX - 09-14-2017
(09-14-2017, 03:43 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 2016 Deep Passing
-Pass traveled 31-40 yards-
Dalton: 7-15-318-1-0 (115.3 rating)
Rodgers: 4-15-195-2-0 (118.8 rating)
Stafford: 2-10-73-1-0 (90.8 rating)
Brady: 3-12-154-1-0 (106.9 rating)
-Pass traveled 40+ yards-
Dalton: 3-6-153-2-0 (135.4 rating)
Rodgers: 2-10-110-0-1 (33.3 rating)
Stafford: 4-8-228-0-0 (95.8 rating)
Brady: 2-6-116-1-1 ((81.9 rating)
Before anyone even bothers trying to discredit these numbers, yes...this is through the air, no YAC.
Of these 4 QB's (the only ones I searched for...I picked the 2 best QB's in the NFL + the one with the strongest arm), Dalton not only had the best completion %, but the best passer rating on deep throws. No one hits deep balls "consistently" though. It's a low % pass for a reason.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/14012/year/2016 (Dalton)
http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/2330/year/2016 (Brady)
http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/12483/year/2016 (Stafford)
http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/8439/year/2016 (Rodgers)
Don't mess with facts.
This team can win with Dalton and I think it can win with this offensive line, they just need to do a better job attacking the defense beyond ten yards, moving the pocket and threatening misdirection from time to time. In other words, a complete reversal from the moronic scheme we saw week 1.
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - SHRacerX - 09-14-2017
(09-14-2017, 05:10 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I didn't record the game and am too lazy to try to find again, so I'll take your word for it.
All I was thinking when Dalton threw those deep balls to Core was, "If it was AJ, it would have been caught."
AJ wasn't open for the vast majority of his day... Jogged routes, looked indifferent. Interesting that the two biggest throws, albeit incompletions, were both to Core. And Core wasn't in that many snaps, despite Boyd and Lafell never being open.
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - Benton - 09-14-2017
(09-14-2017, 03:09 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Kid missed exactly 1 game in his NFL career, hasn't played a snap yet, and minds are already made up.
![[Image: 341f1d74b1bb8e78e00a83816b8bd76f62315663...049f17.jpg]](http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/34/341f1d74b1bb8e78e00a83816b8bd76f62315663c3157875d876f01ca6049f17.jpg)
I've got nothing against Ross. I'm also not automatically enamored, either.
Same with Ogbeuhi. I hated when we made both picks, but I'll still cheer for the guy, and I'll still hope he contributes. But, just like Og, I'll keep poking fun at the guys who think — without him having played a full game — that he's going to be a living legend.
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - McC - 09-14-2017
(09-14-2017, 01:32 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Don't know how far off he started, but he was step-for-step with him.
Actually, my memory of it was that Ross got separation as the ball went sailing too far. A well thrown ball would have been caught. Not to get in the way of your Ross hate.
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - McC - 09-14-2017
(09-14-2017, 03:26 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Ok, HOW he produced. Tim Tebow had a 66.4% completion rate in his college career including 67.8% his senior year. That number was 47.9% in his NFL career. He had a career 9.3 YPA in college with a full season high of 10.6 YPA. That number was 6.7 YPA in his NFL career.
College would have suggested that Tebow would have been a very accurate passer who could constantly sling it deep.
But the NFL is often a different reality.
- - - - - -
Interestingly did you know that Houshmandzadeh averaged 15.4 yards per catch in college? Meanwhile DeSean Jackson averaged 15.0 yards per catch in college.
Yet in the NFL those numbers are 11.5 for Housh and 17.7 for Jackson.
These are the goofy lengths to which you will go to hate on him? Tim Tebow? Seriously, get a ***** grip.
RE: Ross expected to debut afterall.... - ochocincos - 09-14-2017
(09-14-2017, 05:17 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: AJ wasn't open for the vast majority of his day... Jogged routes, looked indifferent. Interesting that the two biggest throws, albeit incompletions, were both to Core. And Core wasn't in that many snaps, despite Boyd and Lafell never being open.
Doesn't mean I still didn't think AJ would have caught them lol