(10-23-2017, 03:39 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I disagree, firing PA midseason would be a great move, firing Marv midseason would be a bad one.

Boling said himself that PA does not coach up players midseason. What hurt could it do?

Let Marv ride the dying ship and move on. We can then hire a whole new coaching staff.

The last thing this team needs is to start once again from the inside.

(10-23-2017, 03:49 PM)depthchart Wrote: I lean toward taking Alexander out 1st for a few reasons.

1. The O-line melt down against the Steelers was the most glaring issue and Alexander is the Architect of that O-line.

2. If Alexander should slide under the Radar say after a Marvin firing right now only to have the next Head Coach saddled with Paul Alexander going forward then that New Coach may be in for trouble.

3. The O-line players themselves need some fresh eyes on their play and an O-line Coach that will want some New Personnel going forward.
A New Fire would be lit under O-line players to save their jobs instead of being Alexander's projects.

4. Marvin has won 2 of the last 3 games without Zampese and I let him have some more Rope to hang himself with so to speak. Fire him later in the season or let him finish this season out. Then make the Bigger Head Coaching change this offseason.






4.

(10-24-2017, 04:06 PM)jowczarski Wrote: On a practical level, they can't fire Alexander because they'd have literally no one to coach the offensive line then. No one. Kyle Caskey assisted on the OL waayy back in his QC coach days, and Robert Couch is the current QC. He's not a full fledged assistant. Also, at this point in time, if you're talking about coaching techniques/theory - even if you fired a guy and brought in a new guy off the street, man, you're in season. That would be a bigger disaster than you realize and frankly, it's impossible to do. It's not like a hitting or pitching coach in baseball where it's all just mental coaching.

The Coslet thing is a little overblown, to be honest. Here's what I'll say from talking to people around the league - Paul Alexander, as an OL coach, basically invented the vertical pass set. It was revolutionary at the time, well-respected - and let's be real - once the team decided to once again reinvest in drafting linemen high with Willie Anderson, it worked.

It's fair to point out that there wasn't that investment for a long while with only Zeitler being a first-round pick until the tackles 2015. Can you build a line with fourth-fifth-round picks? Maybe. Obviously the piper has now been paid.

As for the future - all I'll say is there aren't any coaches under contract in 2018. I think everyone is up for evaluation after this season.

(10-24-2017, 04:06 PM)jowczarski Wrote: On a practical level, they can't fire Alexander because they'd have literally no one to coach the offensive line then. No one. Kyle Caskey assisted on the OL waayy back in his QC coach days, and Robert Couch is the current QC. He's not a full fledged assistant. Also, at this point in time, if you're talking about coaching techniques/theory - even if you fired a guy and brought in a new guy off the street, man, you're in season. That would be a bigger disaster than you realize and frankly, it's impossible to do. It's not like a hitting or pitching coach in baseball where it's all just mental coaching.

The Coslet thing is a little overblown, to be honest. Here's what I'll say from talking to people around the league - Paul Alexander, as an OL coach, basically invented the vertical pass set. It was revolutionary at the time, well-respected - and let's be real - once the team decided to once again reinvest in drafting linemen high with Willie Anderson, it worked.

It's fair to point out that there wasn't that investment for a long while with only Zeitler being a first-round pick until the tackles 2015. Can you build a line with fourth-fifth-round picks? Maybe. Obviously the piper has now been paid.

As for the future - all I'll say is there aren't any coaches under contract in 2018. I think everyone is up for evaluation after this season.

(10-23-2017, 03:53 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: It is quite amazing that everyone on here knew that the O-Line was sub-par and needed upgraded in the off-season. Yet people getting paid to know this thought everything was going to be okay as-is.......How does this happen?! I should apply for O-Line coach position....It seems I know more than Alexander. I'll even do it for far less money!

(10-24-2017, 04:06 PM)jowczarski Wrote: As for the future - all I'll say is there aren't any coaches under contract in 2018. I think everyone is up for evaluation after this season.

(10-24-2017, 04:06 PM)jowczarski Wrote: On a practical level, they can't fire Alexander because they'd have literally no one to coach the offensive line then. No one. Kyle Caskey assisted on the OL waayy back in his QC coach days, and Robert Couch is the current QC. He's not a full fledged assistant. Also, at this point in time, if you're talking about coaching techniques/theory - even if you fired a guy and brought in a new guy off the street, man, you're in season. That would be a bigger disaster than you realize and frankly, it's impossible to do. It's not like a hitting or pitching coach in baseball where it's all just mental coaching.

The Coslet thing is a little overblown, to be honest. Here's what I'll say from talking to people around the league - Paul Alexander, as an OL coach, basically invented the vertical pass set. It was revolutionary at the time, well-respected - and let's be real - once the team decided to once again reinvest in drafting linemen high with Willie Anderson, it worked.

It's fair to point out that there wasn't that investment for a long while with only Zeitler being a first-round pick until the tackles 2015. Can you build a line with fourth-fifth-round picks? Maybe. Obviously the piper has now been paid.

As for the future - all I'll say is there aren't any coaches under contract in 2018. I think everyone is up for evaluation after this season.

(10-25-2017, 11:45 PM)jowczarski Wrote: Yes, Paul Alexander has a say in the offensive linemen the team picks. All the position coaches do.
As for deferring to Mike Brown - it's actually Duke Tobin.
As for 'saving money' ... I'm not sure that really enters the equation in season since they're already paying them?

(10-24-2017, 03:13 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I get what you guys are saying, but the reality is, I don't think any other coach gets fired during the season except Marvin.

Also, firing PA sends mixed signals, IMO. People might read into the firing that Brown thinks Lewis is doing okay, but since the OL is a problem, bye-bye PA. It also gives Lewis a way to defend himself if he wants to stay after this year.

Don't get me wrong, if PA were fired mid-season and Lewis stays, I ain't gonna cry about it. I just think the next step should be to fire Lewis. Then after the season, fire ALL coaches and hire an all new coaching staff.

(10-24-2017, 04:06 PM)jowczarski Wrote: On a practical level, they can't fire Alexander because they'd have literally no one to coach the offensive line then. No one. Kyle Caskey assisted on the OL waayy back in his QC coach days, and Robert Couch is the current QC. He's not a full fledged assistant. Also, at this point in time, if you're talking about coaching techniques/theory - even if you fired a guy and brought in a new guy off the street, man, you're in season. That would be a bigger disaster than you realize and frankly, it's impossible to do. It's not like a hitting or pitching coach in baseball where it's all just mental coaching.

The Coslet thing is a little overblown, to be honest. Here's what I'll say from talking to people around the league - Paul Alexander, as an OL coach, basically invented the vertical pass set. It was revolutionary at the time, well-respected - and let's be real - once the team decided to once again reinvest in drafting linemen high with Willie Anderson, it worked.

It's fair to point out that there wasn't that investment for a long while with only Zeitler being a first-round pick until the tackles 2015. Can you build a line with fourth-fifth-round picks? Maybe. Obviously the piper has now been paid.

As for the future - all I'll say is there aren't any coaches under contract in 2018. I think everyone is up for evaluation after this season.

(10-26-2017, 09:29 AM)Wyche Wrote: .....but you had Whitworth in round 2, Clint Boling was as high as a 2nd rounder on some mocks and scouting reports, we picked up Bobbie Williams in FA, Levi Jones was a NUMBER 10 PICK, Andre Smith was a first rounder, he let Mathis flop here.....he's had the talent.  In fact, the only times he's been successful is when he's had lines mostly filled (except Center.....God forbid we'd get a useful C) with upper level talent.  With all due respect, you missed some dots when you were connecting from Willie Anderson to Kevin Zeitler there.

(10-23-2017, 01:59 PM)Wyche Wrote: Piano Man is going NOWHERE.



Not that I disagree with a thing you said......

(10-24-2017, 04:06 PM)jowczarski Wrote: As for the future - all I'll say is there aren't any coaches under contract in 2018. I think everyone is up for evaluation after this season.

(10-26-2017, 03:06 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Holy crap, I didn't know that. Seeing which coaches are retained might be the most exciting thing to watch this offseason.

(10-26-2017, 09:29 AM)Wyche Wrote: .....but you had Whitworth in round 2, Clint Boling was as high as a 2nd rounder on some mocks and scouting reports, we picked up Bobbie Williams in FA, Levi Jones was a NUMBER 10 PICK, Andre Smith was a first rounder, he let Mathis flop here.....he's had the talent.  In fact, the only times he's been successful is when he's had lines mostly filled (except Center.....God forbid we'd get a useful C) with upper level talent.  With all due respect, you missed some dots when you were connecting from Willie Anderson to Kevin Zeitler there.

(10-26-2017, 03:06 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Holy crap, I didn't know that. Seeing which coaches are retained might be the most exciting thing to watch this offseason.

(10-27-2017, 12:13 PM)depthchart Wrote: This could end up back firing even more.

Say our two Coordinators Lazor and Guenther are valued by other teams for Coordinator positions. If under contract they can't leave for another position at the same Coordinator level.

Not being under contract they can leave to a same level position with another team.

The better coaches on the Staff may use this opportunity to Bolt to other teams.

The remaining Coaches that are not as prized by other teams end up being retained by the Bengals to make up the Nucleus of the New Staff.

(10-27-2017, 02:16 PM)Joelist Wrote: Sadly we both need Alexander to go AND for the team to change its philosophy on how to build. Instead of building from the skill positions in we need to build from the lines out - and on those lines we need to regard all positions as equally valuable.

(10-27-2017, 02:33 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I will never understand the Paul Alexander thing.

Here in town, we see the O-line for what is has been....yet outside of town, he is viewed as a "great coach"

Seriously, look at this:

One of the longest-tenured assistants of any stripe in the NFL, Alexander has been the Bengals’ offensive line coach since 1994, and added the title of Assistant Head Coach in 2003. He’s served under four different head coaches for the Bengals, and his lines have blocked for four different running backs with 1,000-yard seasons. Cincinnati’s line under Alexander has ranked among the top 10 in fewest sacks allowed totals in four of the last five NFL seasons,  and it set franchise records for low quarterback takedowns in two different seasons before that. Alexander has gotten the job done with his front five through multiple personnel shifts, injuries, coaching philosophies, and schematic shifts in the league. At this point, he should be talked about in the same breath as legendary line coaches like Howard Mudd and Alex Gibbs.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/06/07/best-nfl-coaches-paul-alexander-bengals

From the list of Best Coaches.

What are we missing or what is the rest of the world missing?