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+--- Thread: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in (/thread-13202.html)
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - Andy2AJ - 10-30-2017
(10-30-2017, 12:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Wow. That is a great comparison. Hayward-Bey went what 5th or something?
I'm sure the Raiders thought they were getting a super fast WR who was complete.
The sad part being he went to shitsburgh and they couldn't get anything out of him
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - Wyche'sWarrior - 10-30-2017
Mediocre Merv gon' mediocre......
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - Bengalfan4life27c - 10-30-2017
In Marvin's defense chemistry is extremely important you definitely don't want your receiver not running proper route not recognizing hot reads or making sure you run routes at proper depth. with him being banged up and missing quite a bit of practice maybe he isn't quite ready mentally. He did run a nice curl Dalton hit him in the hands he dropped it.
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - THE PISTONS - 10-30-2017
(10-30-2017, 02:11 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: In Marvin's defense chemistry is extremely important you definitely don't want your receiver not running proper route not recognizing hot reads or making sure you run routes at proper depth. with him being banged up and missing quite a bit of practice maybe he isn't quite ready mentally. He did run a nice curl Dalton hit him in the hands he dropped it.
Maybe he's having trouble catching the ball in practice?
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - McC - 10-30-2017
(10-30-2017, 02:13 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Maybe he's having trouble catching the ball in practice?
I just find that so hard to believe. That has not been his history at all.
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - Sled21 - 10-30-2017
(10-30-2017, 10:32 AM)ochocincos Wrote: This may be my ignorance, but doesn't a full practice involve getting hit? If he wasn't physically ready to get hit, wouldn't he have remained a limited participant in practice all last week?
No, the CBA allows very little contact in practice anymore, and Merv's rule is stay off the ground. I don't know that he's hurt, but I don't buy that Merv isn't using him due to not wanting to win, as some have suggested. Lewis know's his ass is on the line....
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - SHRacerX - 10-30-2017
(10-30-2017, 10:31 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Exactly this. Marvin Lewis and the Bengals organization are afraid. They would rather be solid with low risk than try to go to the next level with higher risk. It's why I believe the Bengals are perennially pseudo-contenders but can't win anything worthwhile but also never a true bottom feeder.
Here's what I want to know...what exactly are these players learning from riding the bench? I only hope they have someone sitting with them pointing things out while they are sitting on the bench. If they are expected to somehow figure out what to learn by themselves, well that's not coaching. You can't just expect that those on the bench will magically see something they've been doing wrong or whatever and the light bulb turns on.
Players learn best by doing. I look at a guy like Alvin Kamara in New Orleans. He was behind Adrian Peterson and Mark Ingram on the Saints depth chart. The Saints still realized how good he could be and played him in meaningful snaps, eventually leading to them trading away a great veteran presence like Peterson because they realized Peterson wasn't worth getting snaps over Ingram and Kamara. Now Alvin Kamara is putting up 100+ yards from scrimmage nearly every game. The Bengals should have followed suit with New Orleans and moved their third RB that contributes the least (Jeremy Hill) to give more opportunities to the two primary RBs (Bernard and Mixon).
Agreed. And the team we love to hate: has their guy Artie Burns been sitting? Nope. Last year he got burned a lot but he learned a lot. JuJu Shuster Smith? Nope. It appears to be a Marv thing. And I honestly believe he is intentionally spitting in the direction of the owner for not drafting the linebacker he wanted by not playing Ross. Friggin child.
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - SHRacerX - 10-30-2017
(10-30-2017, 12:55 PM)Andy2AJ Wrote: John ross=even less talented derrius Hayward-bey
You are basing this on what? His college career was incredible. You can't perform without the opportunity to perform.
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - ochocincos - 10-30-2017
(10-30-2017, 03:52 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Agreed. And the team we love to hate: has their guy Artie Burns been sitting? Nope. Last year he got burned a lot but he learned a lot. JuJu Shuster Smith? Nope. It appears to be a Marv thing. And I honestly believe he is intentionally spitting in the direction of the owner for not drafting the linebacker he wanted by not playing Ross. Friggin child.
Exactly. The Steelers recognized that Sammie Coates was going to be very low on the depth chart and they traded him. Marvin and Co. would have never done that. JJSS gets playing time and targets over Martavis Bryant, something the Bengals would have never risked doing. And many feel that Bryant is (far) better than LaFell, yet John Ross can't get snaps over LaFell or even Erickson or Malone? Blasphemy!
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - Bengal Dude - 10-30-2017
(10-29-2017, 11:51 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Every person picking in the top 11 should feel bad for not drafting Watson, regardless of apparent need at the position.
Marvin and Co. would've never used him properly.
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - ochocincos - 10-30-2017
(10-30-2017, 12:55 PM)Andy2AJ Wrote: John ross=even less talented derrius Hayward-bey
This is a very off-base comparison, and I assume you only made this because you think John Ross isn't seeing the field because he's bad given there's no on-field evidence to suggest he's bad, unlike DHB.
First, they are not similar players at all. 6'2" 210 lb outside WR with good straight line speed but not great agility in DHB. 5'11" 190 lb WR that lined up everywhere and is extremely agile and fast in all facets in John Ross.
DHB only had a season-high 51 catches for 786 yards at Maryland with a season-high of 5 TDs.
John Ross's best season was 81 catches for 1150 yards and 17 TDs.
Big difference there.
Also, for as much crap as DHB has been given, he still put up nearly 1000 yards in his best NFL season, so it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if John Ross did the same.
I get people are frustrated that John Ross hasn't been given snaps. But none of us KNOW why he's not. For the talent that John Ross has, I refuse to believe it's because he's untalented or too dumb. I think it's because of the philosophy that Marvin and Co choose to implement, which is work your way through a bunch of practices before seeing any snaps in a game even if the players ahead on the depth chart are struggling. If you don't practice hard and stand out in practice, you'll be riding the pine pony until you do. That may work for high school or even college, but in the NFL where it's "What have you done for me lately?", the talented players need to play over less talented players. Let them learn on the job.
EDIT - I think a more accurate comparison to Darrius Heyward-Bey is actually Cody Core. One-trick pony coming out of college, hope he would become more than that with time. So far, Core has underwhelmed. Difference is Core was a late-round pick, not a Top 10 pick.
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - ochocincos - 10-30-2017
(10-30-2017, 12:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Wow. That is a great comparison. Hayward-Bey went what 5th or something?
I'm sure the Raiders thought they were getting a super fast WR who was complete.
Disagree. DHB's flaws were known leading up to the draft. He was not some complete WR coming into the NFL. The Raiders (Al Davis) were enamored with his speed and thought the rest would develop. However, it did not.
NFL.com Wrote:Bit of a one trick pony at this time. Might be the draft's most dangerous vertical threat, but offers little else. Long-legged and struggles to generate consistent separation out of his cuts. Not as consistently effective on jump balls as he should be, considering his natural size advantage. Too often double-clutches the ball. Questionable toughness running across the middle. Lacks strength and consistent effort as a downfield blocker.http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/darrius-heyward-bey?id=80427
On the flip side, John Ross was not considered a project at all. His ONLY concerns were durability and size (which the latter doesn't matter unless you're looking for a big-bodied, jump ball WR). He was/is expected to be able to get open in short, intermediate, and deep routes. He gets very, very quick separation regardless of route type.
As Aaron Rodgers says, R-E-L-A-X when it comes to Ross. The only thing that will make him a bust is durability. From a pure talent perspective, he's golden. He just needs time for the stupid ass coaches to give him an opportunity in a game, which knowing these coaches will only be when the Bengals are out of playoff contention because they are that dumb.
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - bengalsturntup5532 - 10-30-2017
I think I know the problem guys. When Marvin drafted Ross he didn't know he was so short and little,he just watched tape .
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - Shake n Blake - 10-30-2017
(10-30-2017, 04:14 PM)ochocincos Wrote: This is a very off-base comparison, and I assume you only made this because you think John Ross isn't seeing the field because he's bad given there's no on-field evidence to suggest he's bad, unlike DHB.
First, they are not similar players at all. 6'2" 210 lb outside WR with good straight line speed but not great agility in DHB. 5'11" 190 lb WR that lined up everywhere and is extremely agile and fast in all facets in John Ross.
DHB only had a season-high 51 catches for 786 yards at Maryland with a season-high of 5 TDs.
John Ross's best season was 81 catches for 1150 yards and 17 TDs.
Big difference there.
Also, for as much crap as DHB has been given, he still put up nearly 1000 yards in his best NFL season, so it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if John Ross did the same.
I get people are frustrated that John Ross hasn't been given snaps. But none of us KNOW why he's not. For the talent that John Ross has, I refuse to believe it's because he's untalented or too dumb. I think it's because of the philosophy that Marvin and Co choose to implement, which is work your way through a bunch of practices before seeing any snaps in a game even if the players ahead on the depth chart are struggling. If you don't practice hard and stand out in practice, you'll be riding the pine pony until you do. That may work for high school or even college, but in the NFL where it's "What have you done for me lately?", the talented players need to play over less talented players. Let them learn on the job.
EDIT - I think a more accurate comparison to Darrius Heyward-Bey is actually Cody Core. One-trick pony coming out of college, hope he would become more than that with time. So far, Core has underwhelmed. Difference is Core was a late-round pick, not a Top 10 pick.
Thank you. Saved me a post. Plus DHB had questionable hands in college, whereas Ross had exceptional hands.
(10-30-2017, 06:39 PM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: I think I know the problem guys. When Marvin drafted Ross he didn't know he was so short and little,he just watched tape .
Ross isn't really short and little though. I'm not going to list off all the receivers he's bigger than (again), but he's bigger than Antonio Brown and Odell Beckham, for example.
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - bengalsturntup5532 - 10-31-2017
(10-30-2017, 07:46 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Thank you. Saved me a post. Plus DHB had questionable hands in college, whereas Ross had exceptional hands.There ain't no way lol both look bigger then him ,ty Hilton looks bigger then him.the only guy he looks slightly taller then is Andrew Hawkins but Hawkins also had muscle. I stood next to him trying to get his autograph ,I'm 5'7 he had to be 5'8 or 5'9 I'd go with 5'9. Barely taller then me. Don't get me wrong I want the guy out there.
Ross isn't really short and little though. I'm not going to list off all the receivers he's bigger than (again), but he's bigger than Antonio Brown and Odell Beckham, for example.
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - Housh - 10-31-2017
Lol
Why draft a guy number 11 as a shitty team if you know GOING IN you’re never gonna play him?
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - Housh - 10-31-2017
(10-30-2017, 04:14 PM)ochocincos Wrote: This is a very off-base comparison, and I assume you only made this because you think John Ross isn't seeing the field because he's bad given there's no on-field evidence to suggest he's bad, unlike DHB.Marvin Lewis would’ve sat LeBron James his rookie year
First, they are not similar players at all. 6'2" 210 lb outside WR with good straight line speed but not great agility in DHB. 5'11" 190 lb WR that lined up everywhere and is extremely agile and fast in all facets in John Ross.
DHB only had a season-high 51 catches for 786 yards at Maryland with a season-high of 5 TDs.
John Ross's best season was 81 catches for 1150 yards and 17 TDs.
Big difference there.
Also, for as much crap as DHB has been given, he still put up nearly 1000 yards in his best NFL season, so it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if John Ross did the same.
I get people are frustrated that John Ross hasn't been given snaps. But none of us KNOW why he's not. For the talent that John Ross has, I refuse to believe it's because he's untalented or too dumb. I think it's because of the philosophy that Marvin and Co choose to implement, which is work your way through a bunch of practices before seeing any snaps in a game even if the players ahead on the depth chart are struggling. If you don't practice hard and stand out in practice, you'll be riding the pine pony until you do. That may work for high school or even college, but in the NFL where it's "What have you done for me lately?", the talented players need to play over less talented players. Let them learn on the job.
EDIT - I think a more accurate comparison to Darrius Heyward-Bey is actually Cody Core. One-trick pony coming out of college, hope he would become more than that with time. So far, Core has underwhelmed. Difference is Core was a late-round pick, not a Top 10 pick.
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - BengalChris - 10-31-2017
(10-29-2017, 11:58 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: Why would your #1 Draft pick NOT be a part of your game plan?! Unbelievable
We don't know why cause Marv ain't saying, so it's not that unbelievable really.
His draft position should not have anything to do with his playing time. He's gotta do it in practice before he'll be part of the game plan.
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - BengalChris - 10-31-2017
(10-31-2017, 07:02 AM)Housh Wrote: Lol
Why draft a guy number 11 as a shitty team if you know GOING IN you’re never gonna play him?
Why draft a guy #9 when he's got an injury history?
RE: Marvin said Ross was not apart of the plan going in - SHRacerX - 10-31-2017
(10-30-2017, 03:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Exactly. The Steelers recognized that Sammie Coates was going to be very low on the depth chart and they traded him. Marvin and Co. would have never done that. JJSS gets playing time and targets over Martavis Bryant, something the Bengals would have never risked doing. And many feel that Bryant is (far) better than LaFell, yet John Ross can't get snaps over LaFell or even Erickson or Malone? Blasphemy!
When I watch KCs offense soar with Tyreek Hill and how they use him on simple routes that get him in space and force the hand of the defense, I get green with envy.
Makes me sick. It's no wonder this team is playing with so little energy.
And I might be able to understand it if, like Dennard early on, he was sitting behind top-tier talent, but that just isn't the case. At least Malone got his first reception and (what do you know?) a TD.