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RE: Andy Dalton street value - fredtoast - 01-19-2018

(01-18-2018, 10:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: LONG ANSWER: His value is what someone is willing to give up for him. I cannot see any team willing to give up 2 first Rd picks for a middle of the road 30 year old QB, that has proven to shit the bed in the post-season.


SHORT ANSWER: Late first

So apparently you missed the post where I showed what the Vikings gave up for a 29 year old Sam Bradford.

Im know you love to dis Dalton, but are you really going to argue that Bradford had a better resume than Andy?

RE: Andy Dalton street value - XenoMorph - 01-19-2018

(01-19-2018, 10:13 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So apparently you missed the post where I showed what the Vikings gave up for a 29 year old Sam Bradford.

Im know you love to dis Dalton, but are you really going to argue that Bradford had a better resume than Andy?

only if you argue dollars made per games played lol

RE: Andy Dalton street value - Shake n Blake - 01-19-2018

(01-18-2018, 08:25 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I think the Bears take a lack of a QB to a new level.  You have to figure the best QB's they've rolled out in the 70 years post Sid Luckman include:

Jay Cutler
Erik Kramer (probably more notable for winning the only Lion's playoff game in 60 years)
Jim Harbaugh
Jim McMahon
George Blanda....maybe?

What about the Jets? These are their leading passers since 1984:

Ryan Fitpatrick
Geno Smith
Mark Sanchez
Injured Brett Favre for 1 year
I guess Chad Pennington was good despite limitations...when the dude wasn't on I.R.
Brooks Bollinger
Vinny Testaverde had one great year and 2 bad years in 3 full seasons
Ray Lucas
Boomer Esiason - who mostly sucked as a Jet
Browning Nagle
Ken O'Brien - the worst of the "legendary QB class of 1984"


They really haven't been all settled at QB since Broadway Joe.

----------------------------

Bills since 2005 (when Bledsoe left)

Tyrod Taylor
Kyle Orton
EJ Manuel
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Trent Edwards
Kelly Holcomb
Adam Sandler JP Losman
[Image: j-p-losmanwlynch.jpg]
-------------------------------------------------------------

Since Elway left Denver as QB:

Trevor Simien
Peyton Manning rental
Tim Tebow
Kyle Orton
Jay Cutler
Jake Plummer
Brian Griese

----------------------------------

Since Brunell left Jax:

Bort Bortles (as you would say)
Chad Henne
Blaine Gabbert
David Garrard
Byron Leftwich


----------------------------------

I'm not going to bother listing every name on the Browns QB jersey.

Sure you might feel some of these teams aren't quite as bad off as the Bears, but they're definitely QB starved.

(01-19-2018, 01:29 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not going to get into comparing stats and such, but I’ll say if they’re that close I’ll take Palmer over Andy because I think he made throws Andy couldn’t, and was better at standing in the pocket and making plays (he kind of had to due to being a statue). I think Palmer would have had even more success than Andy if he had some of those better defenses.

I respect someone taking Palmer over Dalton. Just don't respect when people act like it's not even close or something. If you look at the stats and compare them to their peers, they performed on a similar level. Sure, Palmer could hit a few throws that Dalton couldn't. Dalton is also smarter with the football and less prone to turnovers. I have them about equal.

RE: Andy Dalton street value - bfine32 - 01-19-2018

(01-19-2018, 10:13 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So apparently you missed the post where I showed what the Vikings gave up for a 29 year old Sam Bradford.

Im know you love to dis Dalton, but are you really going to argue that Bradford had a better resume than Andy?

I know exactly what the Vikings gave up for Bradford and how much of his salary the Eagles agreed to pay of Sam's salary to make the trade happen. Vikes gave up a 1st and a future 4th for Sam and the Eagles agreed to pay $11 Mil of his 18 Mil salary.

So I am sorry if you consider suggesting a late first rd pick to be disrespectful, hell maybe they would throw in a 2020 4th rd pick if we agree to pay the lion's share of his contract.

RE: Andy Dalton street value - bfine32 - 01-19-2018

(01-19-2018, 01:29 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: only if you argue dollars made per games played lol

...or who has to pay the dollars.

RE: Andy Dalton street value - CornerBlitz - 01-19-2018

People who think we'd actually get a first rounder as well as another pick are delusional. Dalton's value right now is probably at his lowest point. This isn't 2015....he's coming off two very poor seasons. I know many teams need a QB but with this year's draft full of potentially great QBs, the market for a guy like Dalton won't be as high as some of you think.

I could see a second round pick similar to what the Chiefs gave for Alex Smith.

RE: Andy Dalton street value - grampahol - 01-19-2018

There have been more than a few players who had one good season then nabbed a huge contract only to stink the place up thereafter.. Conversely there have been more than a few who have been terrible until getting traded and then became big stars.. 
Unrelated, but who doesn't remember Paul O'niel squeaking by in right field until going to the Yankums?

RE: Andy Dalton street value - fredtoast - 01-19-2018

(01-19-2018, 01:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I know exactly what the Vikings gave up for Bradford and how much of his salary the Eagles agreed to pay of Sam's salary to make the trade happen. Vikes gave up a 1st and a future 4th for Sam and the Eagles agreed to pay $11 Mil of his 18 Mil salary.

So I am sorry if you consider suggesting a late first rd pick to be disrespectful, hell maybe they would throw in a 2020 4th rd pick if we agree to pay the lion's share of his contract.

Just so I understand you correctly, you are saying that Dalton currently would have no more value than Bradford did when the Vikes traded for him?

Seriously?

RE: Andy Dalton street value - CornerBlitz - 01-19-2018

(01-19-2018, 02:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Just so I understand you correctly, you are saying that Dalton currently would have no more value than Bradford did when the Vikes traded for him?

Seriously?

Alex Smith for a second round pick seems like a better comparison.
How about this season, Grap who looks elite for only a second round pick.

C'mon man, get real. Andy Dalton's value is at his lowest point ever, he will not command multiple picks with one being a first.

RE: Andy Dalton street value - fredtoast - 01-19-2018

(01-19-2018, 02:38 PM)grampahol Wrote: Unrelated, but who doesn't remember Paul O'niel squeaking by in right field until going to the Yankums?

I remember O'Neill going to the All Star game as a Red.

Any lefthanded hitter was going to see his stats go up when playing in Yankee Stadium.

RE: Andy Dalton street value - Wyche'sWarrior - 01-19-2018

(01-19-2018, 02:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I remember O'Neill going to the All Star game as a Red.

Any lefthanded hitter was going to see his stats go up when playing in Yankee Stadium.


True that......Paul was also rather young in Cincy.  O'Neill was a fine player here, just better up there......and folks also have to consider there were more live bats to "protect" him in pinstripes than there were with the Reds.

RE: Andy Dalton street value - ochocincos - 01-19-2018

I could see Washington or Cleveland give up more than expected for Dalton (two firsts) given their familiarity with him. Maybe MIN too if all Keenum, Bradford, and Bridgewater go elsehwere.
I could see a team with a good overall team besides a QB give up a first and second...DEN maybe?
Anything less than a first and third is an immediate decline of trade.

RE: Andy Dalton street value - Mike M (the other one) - 01-19-2018

(01-18-2018, 03:06 PM)BMK Wrote: Maybe...what teams are you referring to that have all the talent necessary but only lack Dalton's presence to completely turn the team around? 

I think Buffalo might come close to fitting that description, but do you really think they need to give up 2 first round picks to do better than Taylor?

Well considering that Andy already put them in the Playoffs, and how much they hate Tyrod, I would say yes. And just so happens they have 2 1st Round picks this year, unfortunately both pick in the 20's.

RE: Andy Dalton street value - fredtoast - 01-19-2018

(01-19-2018, 02:49 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Alex Smith for a second round pick seems like a better comparison.

It was for 2 second round picks, and the situation was much different.

The Forty Niners HAD TO trade Smith because he had a lot of support among a lot of his teammates.  The Niners were afraid that keeping him and forcing him to back up Kaepernick would case tension in the lockerroom.

If the Bengals benched Dalton and made him the back up for McCarron then it would be an accurate comparison.  Once a team is forced to trade a player the price drops.

RE: Andy Dalton street value - Nicomo Cosca - 01-19-2018

(01-19-2018, 02:21 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: People who think we'd actually get a first rounder as well as another pick are delusional. Dalton's value right now is probably at his lowest point. This isn't 2015....he's coming off two very poor seasons. I know many teams need a QB but with this year's draft full of potentially great QBs, the market for a guy like Dalton won't be as high as some of you think.

I could see a second round pick similar to what the Chiefs gave for Alex Smith.

Nothing delusional about it. We’ve seen teams overpay out of desperation. There’s also teams like the Browns and Jets who can’t seem to find a decent QB no matter how hard they try.

RE: Andy Dalton street value - fredtoast - 01-19-2018

(01-19-2018, 02:21 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: People who think we'd actually get a first rounder as well as another pick are delusional. Dalton's value right now is probably at his lowest point. This isn't 2015....he's coming off two very poor seasons.

Dalton's last two seasons were better than Bradfords last two seasons before getting traded.

And there is no comparison between Dalton's entire resume and Bradfords before he was traded.

RE: Andy Dalton street value - Wyche'sWarrior - 01-19-2018

(01-19-2018, 03:06 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Nothing delusional about it. We’ve seen teams overpay out of desperation. There’s also teams like the Browns and Jets who can’t seem to find a decent QB no matter how hard they try.



That is a team I should have added to my list.  I think Dalton would do well there if the Marshall and crew are returning, not sure of their status.

Slightly O/T, I just find it funny when people complain about threads about certain topics clogging the board, but jump in every single thread about #14 when we have a Dalton mega thread. [Image: 4M0fBlK.gif] (not you Nic)

RE: Andy Dalton street value - bfine32 - 01-19-2018

(01-19-2018, 02:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Just so I understand you correctly, you are saying that Dalton currently would have no more value than Bradford did when the Vikes traded for him?

Seriously?

Yes, you understand correctly and just so I understand you correctly, you are saying Dalton would bring a minimum of 2 first rd picks?

RE: Andy Dalton street value - fredtoast - 01-19-2018

(01-19-2018, 02:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Just so I understand you correctly, you are saying that Dalton currently would have no more value than Bradford did when the Vikes traded for him?

(01-19-2018, 03:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes, you understand correctly

...............................2018 Dalton...2016 Bradford
career pass rating..............88.7....................81.0
career high.......................106.2....................90.9
td per 16 game..................24.5....................19.8
career high td.......................33.......................21
rush td..................................18..........................2
fum per 16 game..................5.4......................9.4
winning seasons......................5.........................0
win % as starter................ .587................... .413
 

RE: Andy Dalton street value - bfine32 - 01-19-2018

(01-19-2018, 04:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: ...............................2018 Dalton...2016 Bradford
career pass rating..............88.7....................81.0
career high.......................106.2....................90.9
td per 16 game..................24.5....................19.8
career high td.......................33.......................21
rush td..................................18..........................2
fum per 16 game..................5.4......................9.4
winning seasons......................5.........................0
win % as starter................ .587................... .413
 

Teams will look at more than stats in a vacuum to determine worth. Folks look at Bradford's mechanics and size and think he can be great in the right environment; this seemed to be panning out in Minny.  Jimmy G. performed great when called upon and went for a single 2nd rd pick and folks have already provided the example of Alex Smith; however, that was "different".

You didn't answer the question I posed so that I can fully understand you, but I did answer yours, that's kind of rude: Are you saying Andy Dalton is worth "at least' 2 first Rd picks/