(04-27-2018, 07:17 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: I think RT should be prioritized over RG however if Hernandez was still available (he won't be) I would grab him.

(04-27-2018, 07:22 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Pollack is going with a zone blocking scheme, correct?

(04-27-2018, 07:59 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yep, an aggressive, directional blocking scheme with pulling going on. He will want his guys somewhat athletic,
but smart and nasty. I still remember Zeitler trying to pull, it was sad, guy was a great pass blocker but he was
way too slow to pull block. Boling is much better at it as i am sure Westerman will be.

(04-27-2018, 08:04 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Westerman will do better in that type of scheme. Not sure about Redmond, but I liked how both played the last few games. 

(04-27-2018, 03:21 PM)depthchart Wrote: LT Cordy Glenn, LG Clint Boling and now Center Billy Price have me feeling confident about 3/5 of our O-line.

I don't feel nearly as confident about the other 2/5 (RG and RT)

I would like a minimum of 1 offensive lineman taken tonight with the total of 3 picks we have in rounds 2 & 3 and may be inclined to take two tonight should I think they could finish off an O-line overhaul.

Jake Fisher coming off heart issues that could resurface or it may take him time to fully regain strength from his heart issues. Coupled with him not performing in a bonafide way coupled with Bobby Hart waiting to take the right tackle reigns if Fisher falters. This has me concerned. It definitely makes the right tackle position appear unsettled, as it was last season, & not as bonafide as the LT, LG and C positions. This could prevent us having an Elite O-line.

Penciling in say Christian Westerman at right guard or having one of our current right guard contenders win the job is also unsettling to me. Not as bonafide as the LT, LG and C positions. This could prevent us having an Elite O-line.

I'd say that I want either a highly regarded Guard prospect to be taken tonight or a highly regarded right tackle prospect be taken or possibly both in order to take a strong shot at obtaining a top 10 or better O-line fairly quickly.

I want to feel stoked about 5 of the 5 starters or at the very least 4 of the 5 with the addition of the 4th guy opening the door for another guy currently on the team to compete for that 5th spot. (Example, getting a solid right tackle tonight could allow Fisher to compete at Guard meaning we only take one O-lineman tonight)

With all that said I lean towards two more O-lineman being taken tonight RT & G but will settle for only 1 being taken and be disappointed if it is zero.

I'd say my greatest concern is at right tackle and we have options like  - Connor Williams or Orlando Brown maybe others

Dream scenario would be Will Hernandez (Guard) somehow slips to pick 46 or we make a 5 or 6 pick trade up for him and then get say Orlando Brown in round 3. This scenario uses 2 of our 3 picks tonight but I would love it.

Or we just use 1 of the 3 picks for a solid O-lineman.

Using 2 of the 3 picks tonight on O-lineman may not be a popular move with many but I would go for it under the right circumstances.

If not, then use 1 of the 3 on the right O-line guy tonight.  Using Zero picks tonight on O-line will have me unsettled about the line.

I want an Elite level line pursued and not just hoped for.

Only confident in 3/5 of it so far.

(04-27-2018, 11:35 PM)kevin Wrote: I like adding the Buffalo LT and Price at C to Guard Bolling.   Many in Bengals Nation raving about Westerman and others feel Fisher or maybe Ogbuehi can play RT.   

So far Bengals have drafted O Line for Blocking and Defense for Tackling. Center, Safety, Defensive End, Linebacker.  

Saturday could bring another Blocker and maybe a DT.  Possibly a WR, RB or even a late QB.  Look for a CB Saturday also with Austin as a big DB guy.  Late rounds a WR, RB or CB could help if also a Special Teams type.  TE also a possibility.  Look for Bengals to fill as many positions as possible Saturday and then in non drafted free agency.  Don't forget the Buffalo Bills LT and LB we added.  I expect at least another blocker Saturday. 

So Far, I like this off season. Never thought they would do jack in free agency.  Free Agency and this Draft so far is a positive upgrade. plus the new coaches in.  

(04-28-2018, 11:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Kind of funny that people assume a third round pick is a guaranteed to get us moving toward a dominate line.  Most third round picks don't even become regular starters.

I have just as much hope and confidence in Westerman and/or Fisher than any O-lineman we would get in the third round.

(04-28-2018, 11:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Kind of funny that people assume a third round pick is a guaranteed to get us moving toward a dominate line.  Most third round picks don't even become regular starters.

I have just as much hope and confidence in Westerman and/or Fisher than any O-lineman we would get in the third round.

(04-28-2018, 11:34 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree Fred. I think some forget just because we have guys who did not start or play a lot does not mean they are not capable of growing. Most have given up on Cedric and Fisher, I have not yet. I want to see if either is coached up n 2018.

 We need our 1st round pick to start in 2018, it would be nice if others emerge to contribute as well, but not likely we get multiple 3 down players on offense or defense after round 2.

(04-30-2018, 01:55 PM)depthchart Wrote: The Bengals have chosen not to challenge Westerman, Fisher or even Hart with any additional drafted talent from round 3.

(04-30-2018, 02:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What about Trey Hopkins who started 12 games for us last year?  T.J. Johnson also started 4 games for us last year.

(04-30-2018, 02:19 PM)depthchart Wrote: Neither was available in the 3rd round of this year's draft which my sentence was referencing.

You already concluded earlier that your confidence was in Westerman. This would mean that he beats these two out for the Guard job. The risk is that Westerman does not do well and then the Bengals fall back on one of the players you think he beats out. TJ a 7th rounder and Trey undrafted.

Yet you have no confidence in any of the 2018 third round offensive lineman as potential options. 

(04-30-2018, 02:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have just as much faith in guys who have started in the NFL as I do 3rd round picks who have never played in the NFL.  Once a player makes it to the NFL it doesn't matter where he was drafted.  Trey was undrafted but he has started and played more than some guys who were taken in the third round.

They will provide just as much "competition" for the starting spots as any third round picks would have, and that is what you were talking about.

(04-30-2018, 01:55 PM)depthchart Wrote: The Bengals chose to take DE Sam Hubbard and LB Malik Jefferson in round 3.

I like the potential of both 3rd round choices, however, I am still concerned about the right side of our O-line. Should Fisher falter or have resurfacing health issues then it becomes former 7th round pick Bobby Hart's show at right tackle. Totally dismissing the 3rd round offensive line options that were available in this draft may turn out to be unwise.

The combination of potential tackles/guards that were taken in round 3 include: Brandon Parker 65th overall to Oakland, Geron Christian 74th overall to Washington, Martinas Rankin 80th overall to Houston, Orlando Brown Jr 83rd overall to the Ravens, Joseph Noteboom 89th overall to the Rams, Chukwuma Okorafor 92nd overall to the Steelers, Alex Cappa 94th overall to the Bucs, Mason Cole 97th overall to Arizona.

Assuming 3rd round offensive lineman cannot become productive while also concluding that both of the players taken by the Bengals in round 3 (Hubbard/Jefferson) will no doubt be better options than any of those O-lineman that could have been taken in round 3 seems closed minded to me.

Especially when you are pinning your backup hopes in a 7th rounder Bobby Hart should Fisher fail or get hurt; while also pinning your hopes in Westerman a 5th rounder.

There are no guarantees with any pick and a risk/reward decision is being made each time a pick is made. The Bengals chose not to choose any of the offensive lineman named above over Hubbard and Jefferson. The reward is more depth and competition at the DE and linebacker positions. The risk is the loss of potential depth and competition on the right side of our offensive line.

If 5th rounder Westerman and 2nd rounder Fisher perform well and lock down the right side of our O-line then all will be well. Should one of Westerman or Fisher fail, it may become the 7th rounder Bobby Hart show at right tackle or some other later round pick may have to take Westerman's spot mid season.

One of those 3rd round offensive lineman may be showing good developmental signs on another team right around the time we realize mid season that we could have used him on our team. Hence the risk of not adding O-line competition.

On the other hand next season, both Hubbard and Jefferson could be shining (or maybe not) and our O-line could be functioning well (or maybe not).

The Bengals have chosen not to challenge Westerman, Fisher or even Hart with any additional drafted talent from round 3.

Hope it works out and it may. If it does we get a shot at Hubbard and/or Jefferson possibly panning out versus the 3rd round O-lineman we may have taken possibly panning out. If Westerman or Fisher or both struggle, it could be another long season with all of us having a ticket to the Bobby Hart Show.

Risk/reward

I am hoping it all works out because the Bengals appear to be all in on this Plan.

(04-30-2018, 03:41 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: OK.  I am gonna say to you,  Calm down.  Back away from the ledge,  it is all fine.

I too was enamored with Will Hernandez, and I would have looked at trading some of our 7th rounders to try to move up and get him (from NYG).  However, there is no way to know if NYG would have taken the offer.  So maybe we did, maybe we didn't.

So I started digging into who we have on the roster.  I then saw Christian Westerman was considered a 2-3 round prospect that we was able to get in the 5th round.  So basically he has the same grade as Will Hernandez but just happened to be available for our 5th round pick.

The scouts all compared him to Alex Mack and that he would be great at the guard position.

So our line will have Glenn Boling Price Westerman and ?

Our OTs on the team are:

Fisher (I am pulling for him, and think he is the best option here) - was his play due to the heart issue?  That is the question.  If he is cleared and wants to compete then let him.  If he wins the job then I have great faith in Frank Pollack coaching him up to being the RT that we wanted a few years ago.  After all Pollack was a OG/OT player while PA was a piano player.

Ogbuehi Again if he wins the position, I am willing to bet he will not be the same player that we have come to expect.  He has the tools, but hasn't put it together.  I think his biggest issue may be the speed of the game.

Hart A new addition that was on the Giants team last year.  Doesn't look like anything special but he did work out with LeCharles Bentley and he did work his way into the starting lineup in NY as opposed to be handed the position.  Sounds like there are conflicting reports are what actually transpired and he would have a lot to prove.

Perkins was a rookie last year, but as an UDFA, he isn't really inspiring confidence from the fan base to get the spot, but he did play for Texas and that is a good football program.

Justin Murray another new guy and another UDFA.  Probably the longest shot to even make the team, but he has been on the PS of many teams.

Rod Taylor was a late round pick up in this draft.  Yes a 7th rounder from Ole Miss who started every game.  SEC does have some good players in that conference, so his competition level in college was high and the RB that he was blocking for?  Jordan Wilkens who went to the Colts in the 5th round and he had a career average of 6.4 ypc.  While I don't see him as the starter.  I wouldn't be upset if he was.

Some of the OGs can step into the OT spot if needed.

Bottom line: This line will be tied to Frank Pollack.  He did well in Houston and Dallas.  I believe I read somewhere that he turned Doug Free into a Pro-Bowler and that was no mean feat.  If he does here what he did there we will have a solid OLine and Mixon will be a fantasy RB stud.

So hopefully this helps you with the lack of us getting OLine until later.  It should also make for a fun Offseason as we all wait to find out who our RT will be.
 

(04-30-2018, 02:44 PM)depthchart Wrote: I find the statement highlighted above to be quite amazing.

Maybe we can call the NFL teams that drafted those 3rd round lineman and see if any of them would trade the player they took for either TJ Johnson or Trey Hopkins straight up. Maybe there will be a taker.

May find that most or all of those teams wouldn't trade the guy they took in round 3 for both our guys.  (TJ/Trey)

(04-30-2018, 04:59 PM)depthchart Wrote: Not on any Ledge yet, just not convinced that all is fine at RG and RT.

I wanted and expected Pollack to get to draft say a 3rd or even 4th round Guard or Tackle prospect to infuse this roster with more talent. It could turn out to be a mistake that they didn't or all is fine.

One can merely look at a team with a Top O-line, like say Dallas, to get an idea of how one is built & stays built.

While being considered to have one of the Top O-lines right now, Dallas still made an investment of this year's 2nd round pick by taking Connor Williams 50th overall.

Dallas invested 1st round picks in Travis Frederick, Zach Martin and Tyron Smith & turned out to be the team that took the risk of signing La'el Collins (a 1st round talent) who went undrafted due to legal issues.

Dallas doesn't wait and hope for Great offensive line performance, they pursue & invest in it. They make having a Great O-line a priority.

While I am happy that the Bengals finally did some very unusual things like trading down for LT Cordy Glenn and finally taking a top Center in Billy Price, I am not so happy that they took their foot off of the gas pedal during the mid rounds of the draft. Say rounds 3 through 4.

This may all work out and Pollack may turn Alexander's guys into solid starters. Hope he does. He has to or 2018 could fizzle and discussions can begin again before the 2019 Draft on the need to fix RG and RT. We can again wonder if the Bengals will invest early to mid round resources to fix it and maybe again be told to believe in what we already have on the roster one more time for 2019.

A Great O-line has to be consistently pursued and consistently maintained with Free Agent signings or trades or draft capital. The Bengals use Free Agency sparingly, making Drafts a Key way to infuse talent.

Is taking a DE, LB and RB in rounds 3 and 4 really better than getting 2 of those 3 and an Offensive line prospect to develop ?

Until all 5 positions on the O-line are set in stone solid, I think not. Especially when a starting offensive lineman will play all 3 downs and the DE, LB and 3rd RB may end up being rotational players that don't play all 3 downs.

The mid round offensive lineman we take may not end up a starter or he may end up being a starter. Similarly, the DE, LB or RB may or may not become consistently effective. Risk either direction we take.

Given the recent O-line problems that have hamstrung the Bengals in recent years, I would lean in the direction of consistently keeping our foot on the gas pedal until the O-line is fixed. I had hoped the Front Office felt the same but they stopped short after good moves with Cordy and Billy.

The right side may have to implode before they infuse serious competition there or they just get serviceable production from Westerman and Fisher and they become satisfied with serviceable.

To me this is not the way to get to an Elite status.

The Bengals took a big step off the BOTTOM O-line status level by obtaining Cordy and Billy but that may just get them say inside the top 20 offensive lines or maybe middle of the pack.

Say all is fine and they get to middle of the pack when it come to NFL O-lines.

Will they keep pushing for more, to be Elite on the O-line or do they stop short going forward ?

My guess is they would be happy with and settle for middle of the pack. Fans may too. It would be an improvement but is it the right mindset for a Front Office to have.

I say consistently pursue Greatness for the O-line. It is a Process and a mindset that requires investment & risk. Not convinced this Front Office will. I see them settling with a middle of the pack O-line and being happy with it longer term. Essentially limiting how successful Pollack could be even if he is only a player or two away from Elite or Top 5 status say in 2019.