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+--- Thread: How bad was our 2018 Offensive line? (/thread-20277.html)
RE: How bad was our 2018 Offensive line? - NKURyan - 05-21-2019
(05-21-2019, 04:10 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's really hard to know how they rate things. They seem very guarded with their formulas/metrics. That's a criticism I have of it.
Also, RB rankings seem to be lower than you'd think and DT's higher.
I think overall, it's a decent tool. Probably one that factored in actual stats too would be a great combination.
They should be - it's pretty much their whole business model.
RE: How bad was our 2018 Offensive line? - THE PISTONS - 05-21-2019
(05-21-2019, 05:13 PM)NKURyan Wrote: They should be - it's pretty much their whole business model.
I don't know. I think it makes people question the validity.
RE: How bad was our 2018 Offensive line? - bfine32 - 05-21-2019
The oline will be bad corollary to our like for the skill players.
For instance Mark Walton gets 2.4 YPC his rookie years, he's garbage. Joe Mixon gets 3.4 YPC his rookie year, the oline is garbage.
AJ McCarron gets 68.3 passer rating in a playoff game, he's garbage, Andy Dalton has a career playoff of 57.8, the oline is garbage.
RE: How bad was our 2018 Offensive line? - fredtoast - 05-21-2019
(05-21-2019, 06:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The oline will be bad corollary to our like for the skill players.
For instance Mark Walton gets 2.4 YPC his rookie years, he's garbage. Joe Mixon gets 3.4 YPC his rookie year, the oline is garbage.
AJ McCarron gets 68.3 passer rating in a playoff game, he's garbage, Andy Dalton has a career playoff of 57.8, the oline is garbage.
I don't thin you understand how this works.
Mark Walton averaged 2.4 behind a line that produced 4.7 average per carry for the team, while Mixon averaged 3.5 behind a line that produced a 3.6 average for the team.
AJ McCarron got a 68.3 rating with the same line that produced a 106.2 rating for Dalton.
RE: How bad was our 2018 Offensive line? - NKURyan - 05-21-2019
(05-21-2019, 06:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't know. I think it makes people question the validity.
Rightfully so, but if anyone could do their calculations nobody would pay for them lol.
RE: How bad was our 2018 Offensive line? - THE PISTONS - 05-21-2019
(05-21-2019, 08:03 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Rightfully so, but if anyone could do their calculations nobody would pay for them lol.
I think they have been doing it longer and have connections in the industry too. I do think someone else could do the calculations and come up with formulas, but they've honed them over time.
They also have A LOT of employees watching game tape and honestly it's really time consuming to watch every single position on every play and grade it.
Definitely not a business that 1 or 2 people could do. There are a lot of games being played and it's really impressive what they do.
RE: How bad was our 2018 Offensive line? - Whatever - 05-21-2019
(05-21-2019, 02:23 PM)Synric Wrote: The reason why football outsiders has never been considered a actual football source like Pro Football Focus is because they don't give all the relevant information. When it says a failed run to the right who was successful and who failed the center rg rt te etc?
There is a reason why ESPN CBS Sports and NFL.com mention PFF even during things like the draft. While I dont always agree with their rankings their in-depth stats are the best out there...
NFL.Com does the Next Gen Stats now that are pretty good too.
Well, there is a reason. Cris Collinsworth is the majority owner of PFF and works for numerous sports networks and has even more contacts, friends, and colleagues in the football media.
RE: How bad was our 2018 Offensive line? - bfine32 - 05-22-2019
(05-21-2019, 06:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't thin you understand how this works.
Mark Walton averaged 2.4 behind a line that produced 4.7 average per carry for the team, while Mixon averaged 3.5 behind a line that produced a 3.6 average for the team.
AJ McCarron got a 68.3 rating with the same line that produced a 106.2 rating for Dalton.
I appreciate you helping me figure it out. But actually AJ had a 97.1 rating in the first 7 games he ever played in the NFL behind the same line that Andy achieved his rating in his 5th season as an NFL starter. But I was talking playoff numbers.
I get that Mixon's bad year with more carries than Gio (who averaged 4.4 YPC) brought down the team average more than Walton's handful of carries but I fear you missed the point. But please continue about "how it works".
FWIW: I was supporting you're stance in the OP.
RE: How bad was our 2018 Offensive line? - bengals67 - 05-22-2019
I am amazed and respect Fred's ability to recall/cite stats.
Regardless of stats or PFF, Bengals o line last year was awful.
Mixon's average more a product of Mixon making things happen on break out plays driving up his average.
Dalton's quick release and smarts saved a lot of sacks.
There were no consistently good performers on o line last year.
Right side was particularly awful.
RE: How bad was our 2018 Offensive line? - impactplaya - 05-22-2019
the Bengals oline never really showed in real dominance
in the run game.
you saw it from time to time. a series here..series there
but all in all it never really imposed its will on front 7s.
Mixon was already making a cut in the backfield cause
of cremepuffs like Redmond getting pushed backwards.
plus Lazor never varied his looks in the power run game.
the defense knew right away what hole the ball was going in
RE: How bad was our 2018 Offensive line? - Nickslycat - 05-24-2019
(05-21-2019, 10:22 PM)Whatever Wrote: Well, there is a reason. Cris Collinsworth is the majority owner of PFF and works for numerous sports networks and has even more contacts, friends, and colleagues in the football media.
I tried to google how they ranked OL. No info unless you paid for their service.
On the locked on bengals podcast they had a guy who was their OL specialist,
he stated that they have analysts who watch every play from three angles, and grade each player based on the play. Run or pass.
A lot of plays on passes break down, I’m not sure how they rank this.
Cris is rich beyond football, all 32 teams subscribe to their service in a era where every team wants a advantage.
RE: How bad was our 2018 Offensive line? - Aquapod770 - 05-24-2019
ITT: Your source is wrong because it doesn't agree with my far superior source.
RE: How bad was our 2018 Offensive line? - bfine32 - 05-24-2019
(05-24-2019, 09:59 AM)Aquapod770 Wrote: ITT: Your source is wrong because it doesn't agree with my far superior source.
...and your far superior source is wrong because of my subjective eyeball test.