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+--- Thread: Small market free agency (/thread-21953.html)
RE: Small market free agency - BengalChris - 11-06-2019
(11-06-2019, 12:29 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: The NFL is unfair to small market teams. Big market teams get FAs easier and cheaper than small market teams because they know they have a better chance of winning a championship. I believe that the NFL needs to move the free agent signing period until after the draft. This way the weaker teams could see after the draft what exactly their needs were . This would keep the teams who know how to manipulate the salary cap from taking advantage of those who don't. Being able to pay players when they no longer on the team defeats the whole point of the salary cap.
Blah, blah, blah.
Green Bay is the universe's smallest market and that doesn't seem to stop them from contending. Pittsburgh is also a small market, as is Jacksonville and Nashville. All of those teams have gotten further than the Bengals over the past 28 years.
A team can build a larger fan base by winning a championship and contending for championships, and thus have more revenue, more fans attending road games, sold out home games.
The Bengals get all the money they need to cover salaries and expenses from the revenue sharing check they get each year.
Really, it is the piss poor run teams that players don't want to go to and the Bengals are at or near the top of the suck ass owner list.
RE: Small market free agency - Whodey614 - 11-07-2019
Can't really blame the small markets anymore. The Packers were similar to the Bengals in terms of free-agent activity but chose to change their ways cause they realized that Aaron Rodgers only has a few good years left. They went out and got 3 impressive FAs that turned around their defense. They're 7-2 now.
The Jaguars went out and signed AJ Bouye, Barry Church, and Calais Campbell to go with the great talent they already drafted. Some folks will respond that they only had 1 good season to show for it but you can't say they let it go to waste.
Pittsburgh isn't very active in FA, but free agents don't doubt that the team doesn't care about winning.
Even Buffalo went out and got some big FAs and they've been mediocre since the 2000s started.
Granted, Green Bay is a franchise with great history and Jacksonville is a warm city with no state taxes in FL, but it can be done.
It's never too late for the Bengals to change their ways and show that they want to build a winning team in 3 seasons or less. A new star QB and a change in structure could really put them back on the map. Unfortunately, the roster is too gutted to where we're no longer 2-3 impact players away from being good. Not even 5. We're currently hoping and praying that the impact players we think we have are just victims of bad coaching (again).
RE: Small market free agency - Wes Mantooth - 11-07-2019
(11-06-2019, 04:37 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Well I would bet that if MB owned Kraft foods he would probably be more likely to spend more on his toy, the Bengals.
Bob Kraft has no ties to Kraft foods. Please stop talking.
RE: Small market free agency - Catmandude123 - 11-07-2019
(11-07-2019, 02:51 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Bob Kraft has no ties to Kraft foods. Please stop talking.
I don't care what he owns but the fact remains he is worth 7 billion.
RE: Small market free agency - Fullrock - 11-07-2019
(11-07-2019, 08:37 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I don't care what he owns but the fact remains he is worth 7 billion.
And what does the net worth of an owner have ANYTHING to do with NFL success?
RE: Small market free agency - Catmandude123 - 11-07-2019
(11-07-2019, 09:13 AM)Fullrock Wrote: And what does the net worth of an owner have ANYTHING to do with NFL success?If your are blind to the direct correlation between wealth and success in life then don't expect me to explain it to you.
RE: Small market free agency - Sled21 - 11-07-2019
(11-06-2019, 10:47 PM)Synric Wrote: Players get almost half the profit from each Jersey sale. A big name guy going to a big market will make a decent amount from jersey sales.
Also a larger market team provides more commercial opportunities (Advertising, Promotions etc.).
This is 100% correct. In fact, it is the stated reason Marvin Jones left, because even though Cincy offered him the same money Detroit did, he could grow his "Brand" easier in a larger market like Detroit. More jersey sales, more advertising and endorsement deals, more exposure that will lead to post career opportunities. Face it, outside of Cincinnati most of our team are unknowns. As a free agent, the perfect team to go to would be a larger market team in a city with low taxes.
RE: Small market free agency - t3r3e3 - 11-07-2019
(11-06-2019, 11:03 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I guess you are ignoring Ringo's brother Bart Starr.
The Pack didn’t win anything in the 20 years between Start retiring and trading for Favre. Besides, last I checked we were talking about the Mike Brown era. The bottom line is terrible management kneecaps any prospective team from greatness. Mike Brown is a terrible leader, has a terrible front office, and is a terrible strategist. The Bengals have won at a 41% clip over the entirety of his reign. Other small market teams (Packers, Steelers, Bills, Jags) have been fat more successful.
RE: Small market free agency - Catmandude123 - 11-07-2019
(11-07-2019, 10:59 AM)Sled21 Wrote: This is 100% correct. In fact, it is the stated reason Marvin Jones left, because even though Cincy offered him the same money Detroit did, he could grow his "Brand" easier in a larger market like Detroit. More jersey sales, more advertising and endorsement deals, more exposure that will lead to post career opportunities. Face it, outside of Cincinnati most of our team are unknowns. As a free agent, the perfect team to go to would be a larger market team in a city with low taxes.
Ipso Facto the big market teams players make more than small market teams giving the big market teams an unfair advantage.
RE: Small market free agency - Fullrock - 11-07-2019
(11-07-2019, 10:49 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: If your are blind to the direct correlation between wealth and success in life then don't expect me to explain it to you.
It's obvious you don't have a clue about how the NFL works. Robert Kraft could be worth 500 billion and it wouldn't make a difference in terms of NFL success. There is a SALARY CAP and REVENUE SHARING that puts every team on the same level regardless of any other circumstances. What is it about that you don't understand??? Please enlighten us on how an owner's net worth translates into putting a more competitive product on the field. I'll wait...
RE: Small market free agency - Wes Mantooth - 11-07-2019
Individual players do NOT see individual profits from their jersey sales.
C'mon guys, how much misinformation can be spread in one thread?
RE: Small market free agency - Synric - 11-07-2019
(11-07-2019, 11:37 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Individual players do NOT see individual profits from their jersey sales.
C'mon guys, how much misinformation can be spread in one thread?
Quote:According to the agreement between the NFLPA, the players' union, and the league, players gets two-thirds of the money made by selling jerseys. The other third goes to the union -- and some of that goes into a pool for all NFL players.
https://money.cnn.com/2016/09/07/news/companies/colin-kaepernick-donating-money-jersey-nfl/
RE: Small market free agency - THE PISTONS - 11-07-2019
It's funny...the Pittsburgh Pirates are a small market baseball team with one of the lowest payrolls in baseball. The Pittsburgh Steelers are owned by the Rooneys as their sole business and have won 6 Super Bowls...some recently.
The Packers are a small market team too.
Football, more so than any other sport is setup for parity.
RE: Small market free agency - Catmandude123 - 11-07-2019
(11-07-2019, 11:37 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Individual players do NOT see individual profits from their jersey sales.
C'mon guys, how much misinformation can be spread in one thread?
I guess it all has to do with the amount of times you post.
RE: Small market free agency - THE PISTONS - 11-07-2019
(11-07-2019, 11:27 AM)Fullrock Wrote: It's obvious you don't have a clue about how the NFL works. Robert Kraft could be worth 500 billion and it wouldn't make a difference in terms of NFL success. There is a SALARY CAP and REVENUE SHARING that puts every team on the same level regardless of any other circumstances. What is it about that you don't understand??? Please enlighten us on how an owner's net worth translates into putting a more competitive product on the field. I'll wait...
He does somewhat have a point in that the Bengals are the Brown families sole source of income where they keep costs low to reap more profit.
A guy like Robert Kraft and a lot of owners made their Billions in other industries and view their team as status and prestige and want to win Championships.
That said, the Bengals actually had some $50 million in cap space this year. They spent a decent amount of money...just not on quality players. So they were willing to spend, they just didn't sign the right people.
RE: Small market free agency - Catmandude123 - 11-07-2019
(11-07-2019, 11:27 AM)Fullrock Wrote: It's obvious you don't have a clue about how the NFL works. Robert Kraft could be worth 500 billion and it wouldn't make a difference in terms of NFL success. There is a SALARY CAP and REVENUE SHARING that puts every team on the same level regardless of any other circumstances. What is it about that you don't understand??? Please enlighten us on how an owner's net worth translates into putting a more competitive product on the field. I'll wait...
The easiest way I can explain it is "In life money talks and BS walks" And that's no BS.
RE: Small market free agency - Fullrock - 11-07-2019
(11-07-2019, 10:59 AM)Sled21 Wrote: This is 100% correct. In fact, it is the stated reason Marvin Jones left, because even though Cincy offered him the same money Detroit did, he could grow his "Brand" easier in a larger market like Detroit. More jersey sales, more advertising and endorsement deals, more exposure that will lead to post career opportunities. Face it, outside of Cincinnati most of our team are unknowns. As a free agent, the perfect team to go to would be a larger market team in a city with low taxes.
Marvin Jones went to Detroit because he had the chance to be the No. 1 WR there when he knew he would never have that opportunity here. He went to an organization who hasn't won a playoff game since Jan 1992 so I doubt he considered the opportunity to "grow his brand" as the difference maker. Winning is a great way to grow your brand. I doubt there was any mad rush to run out and buy Marvin Jones jerseys, and I have yet to see him in any advertising spot.
Prior to the season, Odell Beckham and Baker Mayfield both were in the top 5 in jersey sales in a Cleveland market that ranks 14th in the NFL. For comparison, Cincinnati is the 16th largest market (NFL uses a 75 mile radius to determine market size). Players market themselves, mostly by play on the field (not always), for jersey sales.
By the way, no Detroit Lion is in the top 50 for jersey sales despite being the 8th largest market in the NFL, but there are MANY in the top 50 who play for "small market" teams (lower half of the league).
RE: Small market free agency - Catmandude123 - 11-07-2019
(11-07-2019, 11:48 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He does somewhat have a point in that the Bengals are the Brown families sole source of income where they keep costs low to reap more profit.
A guy like Robert Kraft and a lot of owners made their Billions in other industries and view their team as status and prestige and want to win Championships.
That said, the Bengals actually had some $50 million in cap space this year. They spent a decent amount of money...just not on quality players. So they were willing to spend, they just didn't sign the right people.
They also know how to manipulate the cap to their advantage. If you watch how FOs are run the Pats will keep some players until they are about to hit free agency then trade them for more picks. The Bengals seem to do just the opposite. Over paying for players that will never achieve what their new contract pays them. Why do they do it ? Because fans revolt when they don'(I. e. Whit)t. Could you imagine what the fans would say if we had Chandler Jones or Collins and let them go? Players like Dunlap, Atkin, and this year AJ will be a detriment to success.
RE: Small market free agency - Wes Mantooth - 11-07-2019
(11-07-2019, 11:23 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Ipso Facto the big market teams players make more than small market teams giving the big market teams an unfair advantage.
I mean, if you really wanted to get into it, you need to consider local tax rates.
State tax in California alone (not including city or county) is like 15%. New York City's combined local tax is over 12%. Comparitively, Ohio's tax rate caps at 5.7%. Florida has no state tax. Zero. Which is why so many athletes, namely almost every golfer, reside there.
So start doing the math. Suh's 100 mil deal in Miami would need to be 116+ in California to be equal. Drop in local tax, and higher sales tax in San Francisco, and that number moves into 120+.
As far as endorsements, that's an outdated and tired argument. It belongs in Mad Men.
What athletes are we seeing most in advertisements right now? Well you've got Rodgers and Mahomes in the State Farm ads. And where do they play? Green Bay and Kansas City. Then you got the Mayfield spots that run every other break. Where's he? Cleveland. Peyton Manning got more oppotunities than anyone playing the bulk of his career in Indy and finishing in average market Denver. Polomalu out of Pit doing the Head and Shoulder spots... Joe Green; Coke...
Try as you might, you're not convincing anyone we're at some disadvantage that heeds are ability to spend to cap and sign a certain caliber of player. It's, for whatever reason, self inflicted. Be it cheapness, dated business practices, inferior product, infererior facilities and ammentities, or simply because we choose not to.
Our market size, and Mike Brown's net worth does nothing to explain or forgive our inability to build a capable roster and quality product. Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Indy... How many examples do you want to stop spewing complete nonsense?
RE: Small market free agency - Fullrock - 11-07-2019
(11-07-2019, 11:48 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He does somewhat have a point in that the Bengals are the Brown families sole source of income where they keep costs low to reap more profit.
A guy like Robert Kraft and a lot of owners made their Billions in other industries and view their team as status and prestige and want to win Championships.
That said, the Bengals actually had some $50 million in cap space this year. They spent a decent amount of money...just not on quality players. So they were willing to spend, they just didn't sign the right people.
But that has nothing to do with his original post that the NFL isn't fair to small market teams. If Mike Brown decides to not spend money when he is making millions upon millions of dollars each year, then that's an ownership problem (which we all know) not an NFL problem.