(12-10-2020, 03:18 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: During the Super Bowl era, a team has won 4 or less games over the span of 2 seasons 17 times.

Only 4 head coaches managed to survive and coach every game during those 2 seasons.

Two were the first coaches for their expansion teams, McKay with the Bucs and Hecker with the Falcons.

The other 2 were Rich Kotite with the Jets and Hue Jackson during the Browns epic dumpster fire. 

Jackson, McKay and Hecker were brought back for a 3rd year, with Hecker and Jackson being fired during the season.

So, if Zac loses out, and the Bengals bring him back, they will join the Browns as the ONLY times ever during the SB era that a head coach of a non-expansion team has won a total of 4 games or less in 2 seasons and the franchise brings him back for a 3rd year.

(12-10-2020, 04:00 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: But the fact that it he said anything positive at all should be regarded by fans as good news. And yet it's not. The immediate reaction is to assume he's not being truthful. I don't think the onus is on me to prove that he's telling the truth, but on you (or other naysayers) to prove that he must be lying. 

Just ask yourselves, why are we all not collectively breathing a sigh of relief? Oh good, the players and coaches are on the same page! The immediate assumption that it's bull is the telling part. 

(12-10-2020, 04:08 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: My reaction is that it doesn't really matter if Joe or other players like Zac or not. The front office needs to look at the actual results to make their determination on Zac's future. If Zac loses out, he will have a .141 win %. How do you sell to your fan base that you're trying to win while bringing back a guy who owns the worst win % in franchise history? 

I posted earlier in this thread a historical example of how laughable it would be to bring Zac back if he loses out. The only non-expansion franchise stupid enough to do it was the Browns. 

(12-10-2020, 04:21 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Well, you can surmise that, but just wait and see what the FO does. My guess is they revamp the oline with new player(s) and a new coach and Taylor gets his 3rd year.

(12-10-2020, 02:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: One of the main reasons fans want Taylor fired is because he had Burrow throwing the ball 45-50 times a game often from an empty backfield set.

One of the main reasons Burrow wants Taylor to stay is because he had him throwing the ball 45-50 times a game often from an empty backfield set.

That is why the players job is to play instead o making front office decisions.  The confidence that everyone loves in Burrow is also a reason he might make some stupid decisions.  He still thinks he is good enough to win games by himself.

(12-10-2020, 04:23 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: In general, I don't think ZT is likely to be fired. The only way I can see it happening (even if we lose out), is if the front office is livid about the following criticism. And it is a valid criticism.

When we hired Taylor, it was said that his scheme was OL friendly because it was based on play action. So, besides drafting Jonah, the idea is that you can allocate resources elsewhere and get by with a bunch of mid round picks on the OL. Outside of Whit, the Rams didn't have a lot of big names on their OL when ZT was there. I remember interviews with Callahan where he flat out said sometimes you can get around lesser lineman by having backs and TEs chip, etc.

So the front office says sure, we'll get you your version of whit and just guys like Hart and a 4th round rookie in Jordan, etc, and you scheme to make them look good. Then we draft Burrow who played a bunch of empty sets in college, who said he liked empty sets, and ZT got so enamored with an offense looking like LSU's, that he just ran empty sets. We don't even run much, let alone use play action. Empty sets by definition mean we don't keep many backs/TEs in. So then we had Burrow overexposed behind an OL built for play action and other types of protection that is no longer there.

So, if the front office is livid that they were told to find one thing based on scheme, and then the scheme changes and gets their #1 QB killed, sure they might fire ZT. It might not fall under the "growing pains" they expected.

To be clear, while this is definitely dysfunction between coaches and front office, I don't think it's a type of dysfunction that necessarily needs a new coaching staff to be fixed. Not that I would be disappointed if the whole staff is fired, but I also know they do a thorough autopsy after every year. The bigger question I have is what the results of that autopsy will be organizationally. ZT has made mistakes as we knew he would (hence I didn't want to hire him), but that doesn't necessarily mean the same mistakes will keep holding us back indefinitely.

(12-10-2020, 04:36 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: But, yeah he's a used car salesman.

(12-10-2020, 04:00 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: But the fact that it he said anything positive at all should be regarded by fans as good news. And yet it's not. The immediate reaction is to assume he's not being truthful. I don't think the onus is on me to prove that he's telling the truth, but on you (or other naysayers) to prove that he must be lying. 

Just ask yourselves, why are we all not collectively breathing a sigh of relief? Oh good, the players and coaches are on the same page! The immediate assumption that it's bull is the telling part. 

(12-10-2020, 04:55 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: I didn't say he's not being truthful.  But I'm also not sure (because I'll be honest, I don't go through and read transcriptions of all the interviews) whether Burrow volunteers his love for Taylor out of the blue, or whether it's just in answer to questions he's getting from reporters looking for scoop and some potential locker room unrest.  

So I don't have to prove anything, because there's nothing I think needs proof.  I'm simply saying I highly doubt Burrow is going to come in here year one and pull a Dunlap, Palmer, Dillon, or anyone else we've seen implode talking about the coach and teammates.  

(12-10-2020, 02:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: One of the main reasons fans want Taylor fired is because he had Burrow throwing the ball 45-50 times a game often from an empty backfield set.

One of the main reasons Burrow wants Taylor to stay is because he had him throwing the ball 45-50 times a game often from an empty backfield set.

That is why the players job is to play instead o making front office decisions.  The confidence that everyone loves in Burrow is also a reason he might make some stupid decisions.  He still thinks he is good enough to win games by himself.

(12-10-2020, 04:36 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Taylor had no scheme when he was hired. He was the Rams QB Coach. He basically copied McVay's scheme and brought it here. He obviously doesn't know when to call a play under what circumstances, etc.

(12-10-2020, 04:25 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah...and your point in there is that those guys usually get FIRED DURING the 2nd season.

Here, the debate is IF he's brought back for Year 3 and it looks like he will be.

(12-10-2020, 04:43 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: "I’ve never seen someone who wants to win as badly as Mike Brown," Taylor said. "I just can’t tell you how much I’ve learned from him and how much respect I have for him. And I’m not saying that because he’s the owner of the team I’m the head coach for. It’s something that people come to you here – head coaches, GM – the respect they have for Mike Brown is off the charts. When he says something you better pay attention because there’s a lot of history and experience behind everything that he says."

(12-10-2020, 01:51 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: There’s an underrated factor in the talk around Zac Taylor’s job with the Cincinnati Bengals and what the future might hold:

Joe Burrow.

No stats, reasoning or evidence would seem to mean much in the conversation if Burrow wants Taylor to stay because he thinks they can win together.

And it sure seems to be trending that way. A new coaching deep dive from ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler and Dan Graziano suggests as much:

“This quote from a source close to Burrow is a good sign: “He loves it there and thinks he can win a Super Bowl with them.”

Questions persist about whether Taylor did enough with a maligned offensive line to protect Burrow. But the Bengals are in the process of phasing out older veterans, which takes time, and five of their losses this season were by five points or fewer. They were in almost every game they played prior to the Burrow injury. Because of all that, there’s a loose belief that Taylor could get another year. But a spirited finish would certainly help erase the doubt.”

That supposed quote doesn’t actually say anything about Taylor. But Burrow and Taylor have been blatantly on the same page since Day 1, so this isn’t too much of a surprise.

Granted, how much credit Taylor should receive for merely working well with a generational quarterback prospect is hard to say — but plenty of franchises have failed miserably by pairing the wrong coach with a first-round passer. Still, Taylor is 4-23-1 as he nears the end of his second season.

It’s on the Bengals front office to decide if the right coach-passer pairing is more important than overall performance, and if that pairing will eventually compensate for the rest.

https://sports.yahoo.com/joe-burrow-save-zac-taylor-141814617.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw&tsrc=twtr

(12-10-2020, 05:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think the Zac era  proves the adage "It can't be any worse" wrong.

(12-10-2020, 04:43 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: "I’ve never seen someone who wants to win as badly as Mike Brown," Taylor said. "I just can’t tell you how much I’ve learned from him and how much respect I have for him. And I’m not saying that because he’s the owner of the team I’m the head coach for. It’s something that people come to you here – head coaches, GM – the respect they have for Mike Brown is off the charts. When he says something you better pay attention because there’s a lot of history and experience behind everything that he says."

(12-10-2020, 07:14 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: This is the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard in my entire life.

How could anyone say this with a straight face?