(03-09-2021, 06:49 PM)J24 Wrote: So Lawson should get punished for others not doing their job? Wow great argument Einstein!

(03-09-2021, 06:43 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'd say they are smart to let someone else overpay him if it is more than 8-10m a year. 

What do you think he's worth?

(03-09-2021, 06:54 PM)jj22 Wrote: Too much credit is being given to DE's who are there a day late and a dollar short, but hurried the QB, forcing them to step up and into the throw for chunk yardage and completions!

(03-09-2021, 06:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: His injury history is what scares me.  It goes all the way back to college.

But I still say he gets 10-12 million a year.  And it is my understanding that you don't think we should pay and DE/Edge player more than $8 million.  Is that correct?  

(03-09-2021, 06:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You are just flat out wrong about this.  There is tons of data that shows pressure, not just sacks< effect the efficiency of a QB.

To me it is silly to judge a player just by one stat when it amounts to less than one play per game.  Not a single player in the league had 16 sacks last year.  It does not make sense to say what a player does on 99% of the plays don't matter.

(03-09-2021, 07:04 PM)jj22 Wrote: There is tons of data showing it is beneficial. Not my argument, but that isn't the case with the Bengals or Lawson. Care to show passers passer ratings the last 3 years? People won't because the hurries for Lawson, did nothing to help the pass defense. So why pay him for them.  Just quickened the completion and chunk plays. That's the issue.

(03-09-2021, 07:10 PM)jj22 Wrote: Only those who can't get sacks downplay them.

(03-09-2021, 06:48 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Not a chance.  There's no way Carl Lawson is worth anywhere near the franchise tag, much less "easily worth" that amount.

You don't franchise guys that had 1 good but not great year, with 14 career starts, and who missed 13 of the 32 games the two years prior.  Not especially when they're coming off 5.5 sacks.

You can mock the sacks total all you like, but that's what drives the market more than anything else for edge rushers.  No one is saying pressures and QB hits are meaningless, but you won't find too many DE's with sub 10 sacks inking 17 million dollar deals the following seasons.

Fwiw, spotrac has Lawson's market value at 8.8 mil per, projected out at a 3 year 30.3 million dollar deal.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/carl-lawson-21858/market-value/

I wouldn't pretend this site is dead accurate, because no one can set the values other than the teams spending the money.  But they're usually in the right ballpark when it comes to these.  They may be a little low on this one, because his price will go up in weaker FA class for his position.   But it won't go up all that much.

I'll personally be really surprised if Lawson sees north of 12 mil per. (I think that number lies in 8-12 range)  And I'll eat my hat, take a video of me doing it and post it on here, if he see 16+ mil.

(03-09-2021, 07:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is 100% BS.  As I have said before there are multiple sources that compare QB production "under pressure" compared to from a "clean pocket".


You really have to be completely clueless about football to not know this.

(03-09-2021, 06:54 PM)Bengalholic Wrote:

____ 2021 pic.twitter.com/2K1QkvPbPw

— carl lawson (@carllawson55) March 9, 2021

 

(03-09-2021, 06:54 PM)jj22 Wrote: Who else isn't doing their job if the QB is still able to get the pass off? Just a little quicker, or maybe feeling a tap on the shoulder after the release. Shouldn't the point of the DE be not to let he QB get the pass off? 

Too much credit is being given to DE's who are there a day late and a dollar short, but hurried the QB, forcing them to step up and into the throw for chunk yardage and completions!

Not saying hurries are bad, but they aren't sacks, and only DE's who can't bring down qb's or stop a pass from happening point to them.

(03-09-2021, 07:23 PM)jj22 Wrote: Why aren't you talking about Lawson and his contributions to the D we see every Sunday? I can't speak on other teams or QB production under pressure vs. Clean pockets. 

I can speak on what I've seen QB's do to our D the last 3/4 years. And "hurries" I guess got them a 125 passer rating and 300+ yards instead of a 140 and 500+ yards. So that's good I guess. Is that your argument? Because the D hasn't stopped anyone (except Big Ben) in recent memory. So these "hurries". Well, I won't break the bank for them.

Maybe on other Defenses where they actually helped or effected the passer.

(03-09-2021, 07:40 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Fwiw, I just don't read into ir that much.

He's now officially due to hit free agency.  That doesn't mean we can't come to an agreement with him.  And it makes perfect sense he's putting it out there that's he's looking for a deal (the best deal he can get).

Maybe I'm just getting too old, but I have trouble trying to read into social media posts.  I've been mistaken too many times trying to read between the lines for the post to be completely meaningless or harmless.  Who knows exactly what he is trying to say here?

(03-09-2021, 07:22 PM)J24 Wrote: 1.) He has had three good seasons while he has been here. Were not dealing with some one hit wonder like you claim. The only knock on him is wether or not he can stay healthy.
When he has played he has been our best pass rusher.

2.) Michael Johnson literally got paid in 2014 for a similar season to what Carl Lawson did this last season. 

Lawson is going to get payed in free agency. if not he will go to contender light it up and get paid next season. He is an elite player that we will miss him next season and beyond.