(03-20-2021, 10:37 PM)impactplaya Wrote: People forget yes the oline was very inconsistant last year, very shakey. But let's not forget the Bengals had the worst oline
Coach in the entire league and Burrow being a rookie
Did hold on to ball as rookie starters typically do.
Oh BTW Reiff can block on a island.
All these questions about asking if Kyle Pitts can block.
He is A average above blocker.
Pitts will be drafted on.his ability to wreck defenses on
His pass catching, not blocking.
Drew Sample was declared to be a great pass blocker
Coming out of Washington.
How has that impacted the Bengals offense in 2 years?
I havent seen it.

Quote:Pitts gives a lot of effort when blocking, and he made strides from 2019 to 2020, but he’s not ideal as a blocker. Evan Engram comparisons are lazy--Pitts is far superior to Engram as a prospect, but Pitts doesn’t have the frame to hold up EDGEs at the point of attack consistently. He does possess very quick feet in pass protection but has to do a better job framing his blocks and not lunging.

Pitts can stalemate, lockout, and hold the point of attack at a solid rate on base type blocks as a run blocker. Pitts could improve when pulling on split-zone or counter; location skills aren’t the greatest in space, and he doesn’t do the best job leveraging his hands, establishing contact, and paving the way for the running back. He may be used as an offensive weapon who lines up inside at times, but his primary threat will be as a receiver or a big slot.

(03-20-2021, 09:13 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Can be Pitts be an option? Because that's my choice, and here's why...

As good of a prospect Sewell is projected to be, he's only 20 years old, and he hasn't played in a year. He also only started one full season in college. One. (He missed half of his Freshman year)

I think it's a bit naive to think that he's going to be able to come in immediately and be a great OL. A very young kid, with limited college experience, who played in the weakest of the Power 5 conferences, who now has a year of rust, and who plays a position that generally takes some time to adjust to at the Pro Level... I think the best case scenario for him year 1 is to be around average. There's a good chance he struggles a bit.

Look at Jonah Williams. He played 3 years in college (vs. 2), started 40 games (vs. 20), played in the toughest conference in college football where he went against tons of NFL talent, and he had a full year in the NFL of film, study, training and workouts before he finally started. And guess what? He was pretty average out of the gate.

I know Sewell projects to be better, but again I think it may naive to think he's going to immediately be this huge upgrade to OL. I realize there's a long-term factor I've thus ignored, but I'm just talking about immediate help.

Chase... Would love to have him. But we've already got two decent receivers and Higgins (and Chad Johnson, and so many other NFL WR's) prove you can get studs in the 2nd and on. Plus he presents the problem of who the hell you're going to choose to pay when his, Higgins and Boyd's contract all come up in the next few years. (You probably won't be able to keep them all)

Which brings me to Pitts... Pitts is a once in a decade Tight End talent. He's not simply the best tight end in this draft, he's one of the most athletic tight ends to ever enter. He essentially a WR in a Tight End's body. He can line out wide, he's a matchup nightmare, and he's extremely versatile.

Tight End is a position that, despite trying to hit on with Gresham and Eifert, we've never really had an elite one (Save one season for Eifert where he still missed time. We've never had a stud there that we can count on. And with the way the game has been going these last 15 years, I think it's something we've been sorely lacking.

So for all of these reason I go with Pitts. Skill players can transition a bit easier than OL, and he's equally as freakish to Tight Ends as Sewell is OL, maybe even moreso. He'd be a great target in the Red Zone and would provide this offense such a unique weapon that we could build off of for the next 5 years.

I'd stick with Williams and Reiff at the Tackles for this year, and try to address the position against next season. Or I hope that we could maybe find a diamond in the rough OT in the middle rounds this year. If not, hit FA next year or use a higher pick to fill the spot Reiff leaves. As far as Guard, sign two cheaper vets this season (Spain and Turner??), and invest a 2nd or 3rd round pick in another.

Just my 2 cents... as always, sorry if this is too long or was boring.

(03-20-2021, 10:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: With Burrow in 9 games. He didn't show up on the stat sheet but played against Tennessee, and Burrow was 0-2 passing to him against Pittsburgh. (He was inactive against Washington.) You can't just shave off his final 2 games with Burrow he played in but got 0 catches just to make horrible stats only look really bad.

We're calling 1.44 catches/14.67 yards/0.11tds per game "look good" now?

That's roughly a 23/235/2 season.

(03-20-2021, 10:56 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: With all due respect, Mike Thomas sucks ass.  The Bengals need to add a dependable, veteran WR, as well as draft a pair for development.  However, like you said, Joe is able to get the most of the talent around him, so they don't need to take a pass catcher at the top of the draft.  Plenty of role player WRs in the mid and late rounds.

(03-20-2021, 09:48 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: His anticipation and accuracy make him able to make average WRs look good. Mike Thomas is pretty average. He didn't catch a pass from any Bengals QB not named Burrow last year, nor did he do much at all with LA; 10 catches for 144 yds and 0 tds in 13 games over 3 years.

With Burrow, in 7 games, he went 13 catches for 132 yards and 1 td. 

(03-20-2021, 11:47 PM)Whatever Wrote: Thomas had 10 catches on 21 targets for 144 yards and no TD's in his Rams career.

He had 13 catches on 21 targets for 132 yards and 1 TD last year.  19 of those targets were from Burrow.

So, given the similar number of passes thrown his way, he had a higher catch %, lower yards per catch, better yards per target, and 1 more TD with Burrow.

I think it's fair to say he was better with Burrow.  However, it's not some night and day difference.  He's a STer/#5 or #6 WR.  He was still a STer/#5 or #6 WR with Burrow.  The guy didn't catch a pass after week 7.

We also heard this line last off-season.  We don't need a WR early.  Burrow was supposed to turn Auden Tate into a #2 WR.  Didn't happen.  The guy does make his receivers better, but you can only polish turds so much.

Get the kid an OL.  Get him the weapons he needs.  Don't cheap out on his supporting cast.

(03-20-2021, 07:42 PM)GodFather Wrote: First round pick 5, Bengals have both Sewell and Chase available, Mike Brown looks at you and says your decision and why? Then Bengals pull the trigger on your selection from these two.

(03-21-2021, 12:13 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Sewell is the pick.
It not Sewell, you take Slater or trade back for more picks.

Drafting Pitts or Chase is literally committing to another losing season and top 10 pick.

(03-21-2021, 01:31 AM)CardCounterChris Wrote: TE is hugely underrated.  Let's look at the TE's on previous superbowl teams:

55: KC (Kelce) vs TB (Brate/Gronk)
54: SF (Kittle) vs KC (Kelce)
53: NE (Gronk) vs LAR (Higbee)
52:NE (Gronk) vs Phi (Ertz)
51: NE (Gronk) vs Falcons (Toilolo)*
50: CAR (Olsen) vs DEN (Owens/Virgil)*

That's a lot of Kelce and Gronk.  Then you have names such as Ertz/Kettle/Olsen.  Higbee had a good season the year they went to the Super Bowl.  Only the two teams marked with * weren't very productive.  Can you make a solid team without a TE? Sure.  Its not as important as say a QB, but in today's NFL, TE is at a premium.  I think a lot of us who remember 90s football tend to undervalue the position.  TE's are weapons today, they aren't vestigial FBs.  Pitts is 100% not a commitment to losing!  To be honest, we should stop referring to them as TE and as a Y.

The Bengals problem isn't talent at the Receiver position. Its the type of players they pick up.  Cincy love's their X's.  They love big guys like Higgins, Green, and Tate.   Boyd can flirt between X and Z, but Cincy really needs a solid Y and a slot guy.  Chase would be a good fit for this. He can create separation as a Z or in the slot.  (Honestly I'm glad we didn't end up with Golladay.  We don't need another big WR).

TLDR: Chase can contribute immediately based off skill set, TE is absolutely not a wasted top 10 pick in today's NFL.

(03-21-2021, 01:31 AM)CardCounterChris Wrote: TE is hugely underrated.  Let's look at the TE's on previous superbowl teams:

55: KC (Kelce) vs TB (Brate/Gronk)
54: SF (Kittle) vs KC (Kelce)
53: NE (Gronk) vs LAR (Higbee)
52:NE (Gronk) vs Phi (Ertz)
51: NE (Gronk) vs Falcons (Toilolo)*
50: CAR (Olsen) vs DEN (Owens/Virgil)*

That's a lot of Kelce and Gronk.  Then you have names such as Ertz/Kettle/Olsen.  Higbee had a good season the year they went to the Super Bowl.  Only the two teams marked with * weren't very productive.  Can you make a solid team without a TE? Sure.  Its not as important as say a QB, but in today's NFL, TE is at a premium.  I think a lot of us who remember 90s football tend to undervalue the position.  TE's are weapons today, they aren't vestigial FBs.  Pitts is 100% not a commitment to losing!  To be honest, we should stop referring to them as TE and as a Y.

The Bengals problem isn't talent at the Receiver position. Its the type of players they pick up.  Cincy love's their X's.  They love big guys like Higgins, Green, and Tate.   Boyd can flirt between X and Z, but Cincy really needs a solid Y and a slot guy.  Chase would be a good fit for this. He can create separation as a Z or in the slot.  (Honestly I'm glad we didn't end up with Golladay.  We don't need another big WR).

TLDR: Chase can contribute immediately based off skill set, TE is absolutely not a wasted top 10 pick in today's NFL.

(03-21-2021, 01:45 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: from your scenario  i guess QBs are very underrated since you have Brady and Mahomes in 1/2 those games... lol... it is a small sample but you do know if Uzomah averaged for the year what he did first two games, he would have ended up top 5 TE in the league but still with only around 700 yards... no way am i taking my #5 with a Tight End

As far as C.J. goes...I think he's lukewarm water.  If I'm thirsty, I'll drink it, but if you offer me ice, why would I turn it down? 2 TE sets are also important.  In that case Pitts/CJ is way better than CJ/Sample.  

(03-21-2021, 01:48 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: So, those teams also all had good offensive lines that allowed their QB to stay healthy and win games and get them through the season.

Why are people so eager to get Burrow killed again??

Let's be real. This team isn't going to the Super Bowl next season. They just aren't there yet. There is several holes that need to be filled and still upgrades to be made that one draft isn't going to fix.

Pitts is a waste on a team that has Jordan and XSF as starting guards. Chase is a waste on a team that has Jordan and XSF as starting guards.

I'm not saying they aren't talented but they aren't the talent we need on this team right now.

This team needs 3 more guys on the O-line (Hopkins is hurt and could be upgraded anyways) to be stout and consistent.

When you have a full season of 5 guys working together and keeping Burrow off IR, then go get any toy you want at any position. Until you have 5 guys keeping him safe, stop wasting picks.

(03-21-2021, 01:42 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I’m going to take Sewell. Generational talents on the line are harder to find than wide receivers.

Honestly if Mike or anyone in the war room is unsure of who to take then ask Joe himself.

Name one superstar WR tom Brady has had besides Randy Moss.

(03-21-2021, 01:42 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Name one superstar WR tom Brady has had besides Randy Moss.

(03-21-2021, 02:26 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Well, he had 3 fantastic receivers this year:  Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, and Antonio Brown.  Not to mention a Tight End group of Gronk, Cameron Brate and OJ Howard.

Evans and Godwin both finished in the top 10 in yardage in 2019.  And they still went out and brought in Antonio Brown.

He also had a prime Gronk and a pre-murder Aaron Hernandez for a few years in New England, which was a pretty revolutionary offense.

And while perhaps not a traditional superstar, people may forget that Wes Welker had the following reception totals in New England...
112, 111, 123, 122, 118

And here's his yardage totals...1,175, 1,165, 1,348, 1,569, 1,334.

If I asked you if this stat-line was superstar level what would say?  122 rec, 1,569 yards, and 9 TD's?  Cuz that''s a Wes Welker stat-line in New England post Randy Moss.

Lastly, Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time.  Hands down.  It's not even a contest anymore.  So he's probably not the best guy to bring up when trying to determing the weapons needed to succeed in this leage.  The guy has been successful with everyone he's played with for the last 20 years.