(07-13-2021, 12:03 PM)TJ528 Wrote: At the end of the day it's truly not up to Burrow.  There's a reason the Bengals have a medical staff, and coaching staff. 

If they want to hold Burrow out for the preseason because they want to make sure the knee is as close to 100% healed as possible they will. 

They have an investment in this player and the ROI is more important than the players feelings at the end of the day.

(07-12-2021, 04:11 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Pretty simple question, do you want to see Joe Burrow play in the preseason?  It could be for only for a series or two, only for a single game, or multiple games.  Or would you prefer he doesn't play at all?

I suppose, since I'm asking, i should answer my own question.  I'm hoping they don't play him.  Even if he's healthy enough, I'd prefer he doesn't see any in-game action until the start of the season.

Fwiw, I think preseason can be great for certain things; I think letting guys battle for a roster spot or for a starting position are good examples.  I also think they can be very good for letting rookies get a taste of the NFL and get adjusted to what it's like.  But I don't think  Burrow will benefit from it.  In fact, if I had my way, most guys wouldn't play in the preseason.

I think as far as him getting him confident playing again, that can be accomplished in practice and scrimmages.  They can simulate a lot of things in a contolled environment.  I just think with his recovery timeline lining up so closely to preseason and the start of the regular season, it's better to err on the side of caution.

What says you?

(07-13-2021, 11:51 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Wes, normally you and I agree and pretty much think along the same lines. 

However, I think Burrow needs to play at least in the 2nd or 3 game of the season.  

He needs to go against defense he doesn't see in practice every day.  He needs to trust he isnt going to get injured if he gets hit or hit low again. 

If the Bengals hold him out and allow him to get accustomed to the game in practice and scrimmage there is NO WAY IN HELL that Zac Taylor is going to let his defense ever come within 3 foot of Burrow. 

Burrow needs to get hit.  He needs live action.  He needs to play against a "real" defense and not something Lou's drawn up lol

However, I do not believe the Bengals will allow Burrow to play in the pre-season.  The soonest you'll see him is Week 1 of the NFL season. 

(07-13-2021, 12:53 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Fwiw, I am not a fan of the preseason at all.  It could be that I'm permanently scarred from Kijana Carter, but I just don't think it does that much for a lot of the players.  If I had my way, I wouldn't let 75% of the starters even see the field in preseason.  I'd rather sacrifice them possibly having to shake off the rust for a few plays in Week 1 then risk a terrible injury in completely meaningless game that could potentially derail the entire season.  And that goes for all types of players, not just guys who are coming off knee injuries.

So, that plays into it a lot for me with Joe.  So when you add in his recovery time being so close I'd prefer to be safe.  If they want him to take some hits I think they can expose him to that in practices and intrasquad scrimmages.  And I think in a controlled environment they can simulate a lot of things (ex: pocket collapsing, guys bearing down on him, etc.)

I often look to college football (or even high school) as an example of not needing exhibition games. That's what scrimmages are for  Sure, some teams open up with some cupcakes but there's always a few really good ranked games to open the season. And it's not like they don't have guys coming off injury or who haven't played yet.  I just don't see why NFL guys need exhibitions to get ready.  It's alway seemed like a money grab to me, just to throw on two extra home games to ticket packages and to make a little bit extra TV revenue.

So that's kind of where I'm coming from.  It's not just Joe coming off an injury, it's that I hate the preseason in general.  But when you combine the two (serious injury + preseason) I just don't think it's worth it.  But I do get the other side too, that's why I thought it would make a good thread.  

(07-12-2021, 06:10 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes.

Otherwise you're throwing Burrow into Week 1 cold after 10 months of not playing.

(07-13-2021, 12:53 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Fwiw, I am not a fan of the preseason at all.  It could be that I'm permanently scarred from Kijana Carter, but I just don't think it does that much for a lot of the players.  If I had my way, I wouldn't let 75% of the starters even see the field in preseason.  I'd rather sacrifice them possibly having to shake off the rust for a few plays in Week 1 then risk a terrible injury in completely meaningless game that could potentially derail the entire season.  And that goes for all types of players, not just guys who are coming off knee injuries.

So, that plays into it a lot for me with Joe.  So when you add in his recovery time being so close I'd prefer to be safe.  If they want him to take some hits I think they can expose him to that in practices and intrasquad scrimmages.  And I think in a controlled environment they can simulate a lot of things (ex: pocket collapsing, guys bearing down on him, etc.)

I often look to college football (or even high school) as an example of not needing exhibition games. That's what scrimmages are for  Sure, some teams open up with some cupcakes but there's always a few really good ranked games to open the season. And it's not like they don't have guys coming off injury or who haven't played yet.  I just don't see why NFL guys need exhibitions to get ready.  It's alway seemed like a money grab to me, just to throw on two extra home games to ticket packages and to make a little bit extra TV revenue.

So that's kind of where I'm coming from.  It's not just Joe coming off an injury, it's that I hate the preseason in general.  But when you combine the two (serious injury + preseason) I just don't think it's worth it.  But I do get the other side too, that's why I thought it would make a good thread.  

(07-13-2021, 12:53 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Fwiw, I am not a fan of the preseason at all.  It could be that I'm permanently scarred from Kijana Carter, but I just don't think it does that much for a lot of the players.  If I had my way, I wouldn't let 75% of the starters even see the field in preseason.  I'd rather sacrifice them possibly having to shake off the rust for a few plays in Week 1 then risk a terrible injury in completely meaningless game that could potentially derail the entire season.  And that goes for all types of players, not just guys who are coming off knee injuries.

So, that plays into it a lot for me with Joe.  So when you add in his recovery time being so close I'd prefer to be safe.  If they want him to take some hits I think they can expose him to that in practices and intrasquad scrimmages.  And I think in a controlled environment they can simulate a lot of things (ex: pocket collapsing, guys bearing down on him, etc.)

I often look to college football (or even high school) as an example of not needing exhibition games. That's what scrimmages are for  Sure, some teams open up with some cupcakes but there's always a few really good ranked games to open the season. And it's not like they don't have guys coming off injury or who haven't played yet.  I just don't see why NFL guys need exhibitions to get ready.  It's alway seemed like a money grab to me, just to throw on two extra home games to ticket packages and to make a little bit extra TV revenue.

So that's kind of where I'm coming from.  It's not just Joe coming off an injury, it's that I hate the preseason in general.  But when you combine the two (serious injury + preseason) I just don't think it's worth it.  But I do get the other side too, that's why I thought it would make a good thread.  

(07-13-2021, 03:09 PM)plantmanky Wrote: I think it depends on where he is at practice at each game week.  Is he going 11 on 11 live in drills?  I think if he can he should play at least a quarter or two just to get into the rhythm before season open.  

Do the Bengals have any joint practices schedule with another team this  year?

(07-14-2021, 11:19 AM)impactplaya Wrote: He needs to play a couple series. Look.we are starting
New pieces on the oline. This oline needs to mesh and Joe needs
To face a live defense other than his own.

(07-13-2021, 09:01 AM)fredtoast Wrote: He knows he can't get hit in practice.  He needs real game reps.



Dalton has nothing to do with this.  I have said MULTIPLE times that Burrow has more upside than Dalton and should be a better QB.

The fact that you fall over backwards to make excuses for Burrow, yet shat on Dalton when he had better seasons than Joe did last year is a joke.  

This time last year you were not concerned about the O-line because Burrow was not a "statue in the pocket like Andy Dalton".  Also WRs were not as important because Burrow could "throw them open", but now the fact that he only had two 900 yard receivers is an excuse for finishing in the bottom third of the league in passer rating.  Finally you are talking about how "good" Burrow looked against the Colts when you would shit on Dalton for posting a 78 passer rating in a loss.

I like Burrow very much as our QB of the future.  He was the #1 overall pick for a reason.  He has the potential to be much better than Dalton was.  But I don't to play "make believe" about how good he was last year because I am not embarrassed about predicting that he would play so much better than Dalton did.

The reason Burrow needs snaps in preseason is that he is still developing as a QB and needs all the chances he can to improve before the season starts.  Pointing to how good he was last year without preseason play is silly when he finished ranked 24th in the league.

(07-15-2021, 12:36 AM)PDub80 Wrote: You're comparing performances of a veteran QB who, for the majority of his career, had one of the most talented rosters in the NFL and a veteran HC to Joe Burrow who, as a rookie, didn't even get an offseason program and had one of the worst rosters in the NFL.

You struggle with context and critical thought, Fred. It's your achilles heel in any discussion.

(07-12-2021, 05:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I rarely agree with Murdock, but he hit the nail on the nail on the head here.  Burrow has never returned from a serious injury before.

(07-15-2021, 01:25 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 2011 had a lockout, the Bengals had a new OC, were predicted to go 0-16, had a rookie 2nd round pick QB, and their best WR with at least 1 NFL reception heading into the season was Jerome Simpson.

(07-12-2021, 05:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The Bengals should be improved this year, but we won't be close to good enough to win any game wasting a half getting our QB practice reps.  He has to be confident and ready to go from the very first snap.