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Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (https://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Cincinnati Bengals / NFL (https://thebengalsboard.com/forum-3.html) +--- Forum: JUNGLE NOISE (https://thebengalsboard.com/forum-2.html) +--- Thread: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time (/thread-28077.html) |
RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - Whatever - 08-10-2021 (08-10-2021, 06:01 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I hope this is just posturing. Maybe the Bates camp is asking for the moon, yet they still know that they'll eventually take less, and this is the Bengals calling their bluff. This could almost be a stalement by design. It's likely a lot more complicated. Reason being, we're talking about an extension on a rookie deal. Typically, the player in this situation takes less than market value in order to mitigate the risk of a serious injury wiping out his shot at a big payday. If the Bates camp is looking for $14-15 mil APY, there's not a lot of motivation for the Bengals to extend him. I mean, between paying $14-15 mil this year and paying $14-15 mil next year or paying $1 mil this year and $14-15 mil next year on the FT, what are most people really going to do? Another big issue is that there is still some debate on what his market value actually is. Some have him slotted as a top 5 S, others have him as only a top 10 S. There's a pretty significant APY jump from 7th to 6th on the highest paid S chart. Consistency hurts him, as he was good as a rookie, mediocre in year 2, and elite last year. With the FT for S's being relatively cheap, it's not hard to see the Bengals wanting to see him back up last year, especially if he wants top 5 money. RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - Joelist - 08-10-2021 I'm not worried about Bates - they will get it done. RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - PDub80 - 08-10-2021 Honestly, I am fine if they wait it out. The Bengals can franchise him after this season. Bates gamble is that he will make it through this season and the next healthy and at an elite level. I am not sure of that. AJ Green should be a case study on when to cut a deal as a player and when to risk going for more cash. The above doesn't mean I'm not thrilled Bates is a Bengal, or that I don't want him to get a huge deal to stay... but, at some point, the numbers work for everyone or they don't. BTW, the Xap is going up over the moon over the next few years... If I were a olayer, I would be looking for something that paid larger guaranteed money towards the middle of a long term deal and foregoing front loaded deals to get it... That's how the Chiefs got Thuney. RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - Wes Mantooth - 08-10-2021 (08-10-2021, 07:05 PM)Whatever Wrote: If the Bates camp is looking for $14-15 mil APY, there's not a lot of motivation for the Bengals to extend him. I mean, between paying $14-15 mil this year and paying $14-15 mil next year or paying $1 mil this year and $14-15 mil next year on the FT, what are most people really going to do? But that's not how it works. They wouldn't be paying him 14-15 million this year. He'd being playing on his rookie contract, and the extension would begin next year. The only actual dollars that could be placed on this year would be cap related (frontloading some of the bonus). The motivation for the Bengals would most likley be tagging him in 2022, which I think is around 11 million right now, vs. paying him top 6 money (14-15 mil). The question becomes, is it worth saving 3 or 4 million bucks if you risk alienating your best player, and keeping him long-term? RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - wanga - 08-10-2021 (08-10-2021, 08:36 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: But that's not how it works. They wouldn't be paying him 14-15 million this year. He'd being playing on his rookie contract, and the extension would begin next year. The only actual dollars that could be placed on this year would be cap related (frontloading some of the bonus). No it’s not. RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - NUGDUKWE - 08-10-2021 I'm just curious and I'm not sure if anyone else has brought this up. But I've noticed before ppl say the Bengals are cheap and I would tend to agree but when we do sign someone alot of times ppl want to say it's a bad deal and we paid too much. So where do you think Bates is as far as rank among safeties? And what kind of deal ( $ and yrs) would you like the Bengals to sign him to? If the #s I'm seeing are accurate it would be like 4yrs 60mil. Is that a good deal? RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 08-10-2021 (08-10-2021, 09:36 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I'm just curious and I'm not sure if anyone else has brought this up. But I've noticed before ppl say the Bengals are cheap and I would tend to agree but when we do sign someone alot of times ppl want to say it's a bad deal and we paid too much. That would be more than fine with me. That's about 15 mil per year for one of the top Safeties in the NFL in his prime. RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - sandwedge - 08-10-2021 (08-10-2021, 09:42 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That would be more than fine with me. That's about 15 mil per year for one of the top Safeties in the NFL in his prime. I agree! it's seems to me his salary range is almost slotted. That why I don't think the Bengals are low balling him or he isn't asking a lot more. Maybe it's the language in the contract or bonuses? RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - Whatever - 08-10-2021 (08-10-2021, 08:36 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: But that's not how it works. They wouldn't be paying him 14-15 million this year. He'd being playing on his rookie contract, and the extension would begin next year. The only actual dollars that could be placed on this year would be cap related (frontloading some of the bonus). Justin Simmons got a $15 mil signing bonus, so yeah, we are talking paying him that kind of money. I realize you're talking strictly about cap accounting, but you also have to look at the real money, too. The question is when you sign that deal, are you getting '20 Bates, '19 Bates, or '18 Bates? If you're paying Top 6 money for '19 or '18 Bates, you're getting screwed. You basically have him already for 3 years with the FT. There's not much motivation to extend him if all you"re doing is getting an extra year to finesse the cap. I get trying to keep guys happy, but it's also a business. RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - NATI BENGALS - 08-10-2021 I thought I read Bates put a lot of weight on his decision to enter the draft on money. Getting pretty analytical as far as first round S pay compared to 2nd contracts for later round guys? Idk Bengals aren’t afraid to pay handsomely for their own. He wants to break the bank. I love Bates. But I’m not hamstringing the team for a safety. He’s played a lot the last 3 years and we still lost a lot of games. Would I trade him for two 1s and start Brandon Wilson in a heart beat? Yes RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - 2MinutesHate - 08-10-2021 Let Bates walk, cut XSF and, promote Michael Jordan to a starting guard all should be moves to help us get closer to the cap floor. RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - Tony - 08-11-2021 I've given this some thought since this was posted.. If we don't sign Bates this might finally push me over the edge. We finally draft a superstar safety after it being a spot of concern for years and this is how they handle it?? RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - kevin - 08-11-2021 (08-10-2021, 03:58 PM)J24 Wrote: According to Jeremy Fowler from ESPN. Glad you included source as ESPN. Sports Illustrated says Bengals and Bates want to make the deal before season starts. Who to believe ? Now one poster said what if Bates is asking for 20 mil ? OK, but what if Mike Brown Family is offering 5 mil when top Safeties get 10 mil ? Again, people are so quick to defend Mike Brown over the decades and blame the players leaving. I agree, Bates does not deserve 20 mil or even 15 mil. 10 to 13 mil would make Bates in the Top 10 paid Safeties in NFL. If Bengals are not offering at least 10 mil, they are again going Too Cheap. The Bengals NEED the 24 year old Defensive Star. He is young and part of the Future. I will not believe The LAST PLACE Bengals are trying to build a winning team if they do not make Bates a good offer, and it may be the straw that breaks the camels back for me. I am tired of Mike Browns cheap losing ways and his 30 years of Losing since his great Dad died. The Paul Brown Bengals I liked. The Mike Brown Bengals I don't like. Hopefully Sports Illustrated is right, not ESPN. We need Bates more than we need Mike Brown. RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - Tony - 08-11-2021 (08-11-2021, 01:36 AM)kevin Wrote: Glad you included source as ESPN. Sports Illustrated says Bengals and Bates want to make the deal before season starts. Who to believe ? Now one poster said what if Bates is asking for 20 mil ? OK, but what if Mike Brown Family is offering 5 mil when top Safeties get 10 mil ? Again, people are so quick to defend Mike Brown over the decades and blame the players leaving. I agree, Bates does not deserve 20 mil or even 15 mil. 10 to 13 mil would make Bates in the Top 10 paid Safeties in NFL. If Bengals are not offering at least 10 mil, they are again going Too Cheap. You are joking right? Lol... Who is defending Mike Brown around here lol lol... RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - sandwedge - 08-11-2021 (08-11-2021, 01:29 AM)Tony Wrote: I've given this some thought since this was posted.. If we don't sign Bates this might finally push me over the edge. We finally draft a superstar safety after it being a spot of concern for years and this is how they handle it?? Handle what? Not sure why we blame one side when nobody knows what is happening. RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - Sled21 - 08-11-2021 Good grief, now the front office, which is pretty good at getting deals done, is horrible and Bates doesn't want to be here. The sky is falling. ![]() RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - pally - 08-11-2021 Seahawk’s Jamal Adams needs Bates to sign first and Bates needs Adams to sign first. Both are at an impasss. Whomever signs first sets the market for the other. And neither wants to set it too low RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - SadFaceBengal15 - 08-11-2021 (08-11-2021, 08:35 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Good grief, now the front office, which is pretty good at getting deals done, is horrible and Bates doesn't want to be here. The sky is falling. Just like Lawson and William Jackson or just like whit or Zietler or anyone who’s good that we draft we let walk. Yea bank on it right lmao RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - SadFaceBengal15 - 08-11-2021 (08-11-2021, 01:41 AM)sandwedge Wrote: Handle what? Not sure why we blame one side when nobody knows what is happening. Stfu and pay the goddamn man. Bates is a good guy he’s not asking for money he ain’t deserving of. The guy is a damn super start ***** pay the man. This team is a damn joke. RE: Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time - SadFaceBengal15 - 08-11-2021 (08-11-2021, 01:40 AM)Tony Wrote: You are joking right? Lol... Who is defending Mike Brown around here lol lol... Seriously mike brown is never going to get My vote for a damn thing. I’ll never defend mike brown unless at his funeral. The guy is garbage the family can’t run a lemonade stand let alone a football franchise. Bengals have always said we build through the draft however when the draft good players u realize how cheap they are cuz rarely do the bengals bring them back cuz they’re cheap. It’s known around the league. So here we are building a young team up with good guys and uve got the poster child of that in bates whom u drafted and we don’t know if y’all gonna get a deal done. First of bates should be paid higher than the top 10 safeties cuz he’s a top 5 safety at least. Give him 13.5 to 14.5 a year take a lil on the chin keep the best young safety in the league on the team let alone the defensive captain locker room leader and overall best fricken player on the team. Bengals make everything easy hard. See previous draft if u don’t believe me. Taking chase was the dumbest thing u could’ve done especially when arguably the best body guard of the last decade in Sewell was sitting there for Your taking... it was that easy for them. But they had to shoot themselves in the foot. The bengals are dumb they don’t win and it’s cuz of shit like the chase pick and shit like not paying bates |