(11-24-2021, 09:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This is BS.

Bengals run defense was WORSE after they benched Dunlap (151.7 yds/g, 5.2 avg) than before (141.8 yds/g, 5.0 avg).

Also Dunlap was not playing for a contract because was signed through the 2021 season.  But do you really think NFL teams are so stupid that they just pay a player based on his sack numbers without watching any film on how he plays?

(11-24-2021, 09:53 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: You are digging yourself a really deep hole, Fred.  So now the entire run defense was at the expense of one position on the defensive line and not because they lost Reader and many others on that line? 

(11-24-2021, 10:02 AM)fredtoast Wrote: How am I digging myself a hole when I post stats and all you post is stuff you make up in your head?

I honestly do not remember all these big runs you claim Dunlap gave up.  Please give me some examples.

(11-24-2021, 09:50 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: For the year, 2020:

Carl Lawson-  68.2% (and you are dead wrong, Lawson was playing around 60% of snaps before the second Cleveland game and then closer to 75% after)

Carlos Dunlap- 26.1%

Amani Bledsoe- 29.43%

Khalid Kareem- 24.1%

Again, he was not replaced by Kareem and Bledsoe, he lost his starting role to Lawson.  

(11-24-2021, 10:08 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I have no problem acknowledging that Carlos was a great defensive end in Cincinnati, but at the end of his career here he was not an impact talent, despite being paid like one.  

(11-23-2021, 10:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Based on his production 90% of the defensive players in the league "half-assed it way to much".




So were George Washington and Martin Luther King.

(11-24-2021, 08:26 AM)fredtoast Wrote: My point by showing his career totals is to prove his consistency and durability.  He was a steady grinder instead of a guy who flashed a big year once or twice and then disappeared. 

It takes some special type of spin to shit on a guy for ranking top ten in the league over a decade.  And, of course it also requires you to just look at one stat like sacks and ignore everything else like tackles, QB hits, and passes defended.



Dunlap was BELOW AVERAGE for a DE in broad jump, long jump, bench press, 3-cone drill, and short shuttle.  He also had a DUI arrest before the bowl game but that had nothing to do with work ethic.

(11-24-2021, 10:21 AM)fredtoast Wrote: he was still an "impact talent".  His production the second half of the season with Seattle proves this.

Only difference was coaching.

(11-24-2021, 10:37 AM)Whatever Wrote: If I do the same exercise with other stats, it's just going to be the same result because there are only a handful of players that played in all the exact same seasons he did.  There are a bunch of guys already in the league when he came in that were better than him that he will beat in that timeframe simply because they retired and did not accrue as many seasons.  Similarly, there are a bunch of guys who came into the league after Dunlap that were better, but didn't accrue as many seasons.  It's literally weighted in Dunlap's favor.

Dunlap was below average for his size in only one combine test.  He was 70th percentile or better in half of them and 98th percentile in 3 of them.  He was a great athlete for a DE his size.  His issues went beyond a DUI.  He had serious work ethic questions.  

(11-24-2021, 08:45 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This might spark a lot of "that is a HOF player, what has ZT ever done", but you are absolutely correct.  People lose on the concept of team over individual talent all the time, despite seeing examples of it every day.  Look at OBJ.  He didn't help Cleveland at all.  Do I think he is a massive talent?  Yes.  Would I want him here?  Hell, no.   

Green was never a publicly negative force (to my knowledge) and neither was Geno, but I agree with the essentially new roster and starting fresh.  New leaders have emerged.  

Perhaps the most overlooked thing about this team from a roster standpoint is that Burrow, Mixon, Boyd, Higgins, and Chase are all under contracts that extend at least three more years.  That is a GREAT young nucleus on offense.  

This team is ahead of the so-called schedule and I am loving every minute of it.  

(11-24-2021, 09:50 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: For the year, 2020:

Carl Lawson-  68.2% (and you are dead wrong, Lawson was playing around 60% of snaps before the second Cleveland game and then closer to 75% after)

Carlos Dunlap- 26.1%

Amani Bledsoe- 29.43%

Khalid Kareem- 24.1%

Again, he was not replaced by Kareem and Bledsoe, he lost his starting role to Lawson.  

(11-24-2021, 11:51 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: The Dunlap debate is so stale, much like his play right before he left.

Who cares about Carlos, we got a new bad dude in town that’s gonna break  the Bengals single season sack record this year…

(11-24-2021, 10:08 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: So, it is in my head that an NFL defensive coordinator decided to play someone else over him?  It is in my head that despite being a such a glorious NFL talent at the defensive end position that no team offered more than a 7th round pick for him?  It is also in my head that a year later he is having an even greater reduced role at Seattle than he was here in Cincinnati? 

Don't forget, it was Carlos that decided to have a zoom meeting as some kind of posturing where all he did was eat potato chips, prompting a leader on the team to tell him something to the effect of "suck a turd, los".

I have no problem acknowledging that Carlos was a great defensive end in Cincinnati, but at the end of his career here he was not an impact talent, despite being paid like one.  

(11-24-2021, 11:41 AM)Wyche Wrote: It's literally in his scouting report.

That said, Carlos was, and will remain, one of my favorites. However, I'm not just gonna gloss over how he handled his exit. It was Bush League.

(11-24-2021, 12:45 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Said this on old board but did not hammer it down because Carlos was a Bengal with tons of potential and I was a fan of drafting him as well.

But my seats were in the front row right on the defensive line end of bench. During the Marvin regime I never saw anybody get yelled at by the coaches even a quarter as much as Carlos. In fact it does not happen that often except with him.

They would be coming at him constantly while throwing a handful of photos in his face and screaming with spit flying out of their mouth so much that I tabbed him with the nickname Dumblap. Of course I was berated for saying so and expect to be again.

Although they played different positions Tank Johnson really mentored him mentally on bench back then and helped calm him down and get him through after the sideline tongue lashings.

Plus think he did have elite talent and that got him through well enough to be very serviceable and at times great even. Yet he never really matured between the ears imo.

To be fair neither have I, so not going to hate on him. Just spilling some eyewitness accounts of what happened on the bench.

(11-24-2021, 11:51 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: The Dunlap debate is so stale, much like his play right before he left.

Who cares about Carlos, we got a new bad dude in town that’s gonna break the Bengals single season sack record this year…

(11-24-2021, 01:50 PM)jason Wrote: I agree with your general premise, but Hendrickson is a one trick pony compared to prime Dunlap... But yeah, bygones and all that.

(11-24-2021, 01:54 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: It is a very good trick and one of the most valuable in all of football