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+--- Thread: What can Burrow do differently? (/thread-31300.html)
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - jace4655 - 02-18-2022
(02-17-2022, 08:43 PM)Housh Wrote: This video tells me a lot.Personally, I always hate looking at these types of topics with blinders on. Yeah, he missed open receivers all night long. And if you just look at it this way, it does look bad. But, once you also factor in the fact that on nearly every single drop back, he literally didn't have time to look past his 1st or 2nd reads.
https://youtu.be/Ay250KHyPYA
It’s a video of every time Burrow was sacked in the playoffs.
And i have to say we have a bigger Burrow problem than we think. The first 3 sacks of the video were Burrows fault. I haven’t finished the video yet but out of the 1st 4 sacks 3 of the 4 there was a running back WIDE OPEN.
Burrow needs to throw the checkdown. 70 sacks means your line is poor but i think Burrow could’ve shaved off maybe even 60% of the sacks by just throwing to the checkdown. That number sounds high i know but look at this video. Burrow needs to take way more credit for these sacks than the media is giving him. A LARGE percentage of the sacks were his fault. No o line can block for a guy that holds it too long. We could have 5 Witworths on the line and if Joe is gonna ignore the running back they’d give up sacks
As someone has already said here, he had to basically guess pre snap which receiver was going to be open almost immediately after the ball was snapped. If you only have enough time to look at 1 option before you're laying on your back, it doesn't matter if all of your other options were wide open.
With that said, I've felt all year that one of his biggest weaknesses was his unwillingness to just take a L sometimes and just throw the ball away. Tbh I've always thought that it was extremely telling that the QB who had the highest completion percentage also was one of the highest sacked QB'd in the league also!
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - Go Cards - 02-18-2022
Burrow has improved all year on things. He was bad at many things but grew every single game all year long.
He still has a ways to go but its hard learning on the fly when you have no time. Great QB's look off where they are really wanting to throw the ball but he rarely has time to do this.
Not saying some sacks are not on Burrow because some are. Yet its just hard to blame him after seeing the fast and furious pressure he constantly faces.
If you want to help Burrow get a O-line who can dominate in run blocking and are adequate in pass protection. Where he really has problems and so does Mahomes obviously because that's how the Bengals stopped him too is when defenses can only rush 3 or 4 players and drop everybody else back in coverage.
We have to force teams to bring up run support into the box so Burrow can go to work with his talented WR's.
Not really too worried about Burrow because he learns and adapts and heck he made it all the way to SB behind a poor O-line already.
Trust me the O-line is way more of a problem than Joe.
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - Go Cards - 02-18-2022
Plus if its not fixed soon ?
Happy feet will eventually set in and that's never good.
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - Oasis5055 - 02-18-2022
People saying “just throw the ball away” like it’s just that simple. It still takes a second to make any pass. If you’re about to get your clock cleaned it’s better to protect yourself than risk injury
Taking sacks is also a product of a quarterback who does not force passes. Part of the reason they got this far was the significant Advantage in turnover ratio
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - Nicomo Cosca - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 03:26 AM)Oasis5055 Wrote: People saying “just throw the ball away” like it’s just that simple. It still takes a second to make any pass. If you’re about to get your clock cleaned it’s better to protect yourself than risk injury
Taking sacks is also a product of a quarterback who does not force passes. Part of the reason they got this far was the significant Advantage in turnover ratio
Both good points. I really thought we’d take that last game right up until the end since we won the turnover battle. Those late sacks were such drive killers though. And when guys like Aaron Donald are blowing through in 2.2 seconds there isn’t really an opportunity to “just throw the ball away.”
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - Essex Johnson - 02-18-2022
1. I think he needs to let go of wanting empty so much
2. get better with play action
3. Use the clock better to vary the rush , we took clock down too much
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - Fan_in_Kettering - 02-18-2022
(02-17-2022, 04:58 PM)CincyDog Wrote: I have held off on positing this, because it seems nit picky - but if I notice it, then it is a thing.
When he receives the ball in shotgun, he is nearly always leaning or moving slightly forward to meet the ball, then he is stopping his frwd momentum and kind of reversing and taking his drop as needed.
It is a matter of tenths of a second, but it is something he can clean up.
Has anyone else noticed this?
Yes, and this technique done with good reason to this point in Joe’s career. It’s a left over move from OSU and LSU. While Urban Meyer and Ed Orgeron ran mostly pro-style offenses there were still traditional college elements in their play calling. One of these elements included a run option from shotgun where, if no linebackers were spying the quarterback, he had the option to just take off and run immediately after handling the snap.
In the pros this isn’t done too much although you see the same forward lean from Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray and occasionally from Patrick Mahomes. Joe Burrow isn’t a runner in the sense those other guys are!
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - reuben.ahmed - 02-18-2022
Designed rollouts, throw the ball away instead of sack when you're in FG range, and go no huddle
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - higgy100 - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 03:26 AM)Oasis5055 Wrote: People saying “just throw the ball away” like it’s just that simple. It still takes a second to make any pass. If you’re about to get your clock cleaned it’s better to protect yourself than risk injury
Taking sacks is also a product of a quarterback who does not force passes. Part of the reason they got this far was the significant Advantage in turnover ratio
Especially for a QB like JB that holds onto the ball anyways a bit longer in order to let plays develop. It's not just the time it takes to throw a ball away but, remember, there are constant defenders around Burrow almost non-stop and that's even when he has time to throw let alone when the pocket collapses or the S blitzes unimpeded.
It's a pretty long pass to make anyways from the middle of the field to out of bounds as you have to have enough on the ball and if his arm gets hit (and there are DL within a couple feet of him anyways almost every play) that ball can be a pick 6.
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - Housh - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 08:24 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: 1. I think he needs to let go of wanting empty so much
2. get better with play action
3. Use the clock better to vary the rush , we took clock down too much
Zac has admitted in multiple occasions his calls were late.
I forget what game it was but i remember very vividly a game where a burrow had his hands covering his helmet ear holes waiting for the call and CLEARLY the call was late so he waved off the sideline and called his own play and threw for an easy 1st.
That was probably happening way more than we know.
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - bengalfan74 - 02-18-2022
(02-17-2022, 03:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think stepping up in the pocket more at times would help him. He seems to escape good laterally but not by moving up.
Agree but... lots of times the center and guard/s are shoved back 5 yards at the snap of the ball. Hard to climb then.
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - KillerGoose - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 12:26 PM)Housh Wrote: Zac has admitted in multiple occasions his calls were late.
I forget what game it was but i remember very vividly a game where a burrow had his hands covering his helmet ear holes waiting for the call and CLEARLY the call was late so he waved off the sideline and called his own play and threw for an easy 1st.
That was probably happening way more than we know.
This is when the headset stopped working, I think. Joe spoke about this and how fun it was calling his own plays - all three were successful. During that interaction, they panned to ZT and you could read his lips saying "Is this fuxking thing not working?" It was against the Titans.
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - Frank Booth - 02-18-2022
I don’t want Burrow doing anything differently
Well, except sliding more effectively
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - Wyche'sWarrior - 02-18-2022
(02-17-2022, 08:45 PM)Housh Wrote: Finished the video 60% was low. MOST the sacks were Burrows fault. Tom Brady behind this same exact line wouldn’t have been sacked as much. The Super Bowl sacks were really really bad. He had the RB open on literally all the sacks he took but the final play. But on that play he had Uzomah wide open.
I thought Burrow had a B- grade superbiwl but after seeing these sacks he had a C- game. He didn’t play well at all. This kinda scares me and it needs to be coached out of Burrow. He has savior syndrome at QB. He thinks he has to make “the throw” and carry his team when sometimes the best play is the dump it off and trust your guy to break a tackle. Burrow did not trust his teammates to break tackles. He wanted every single pass to be a big play. I think the o line deserves some apologies. They were bad but Burrow was 1/2 the problem
......but, but, the plays don't have check downs built in. Or so I've been told.
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - Wyche'sWarrior - 02-18-2022
(02-17-2022, 11:31 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:I like the idea of dividing up sack credit by pass blocking and QB. Using the same sack expectations based on the OL survival curves.
— Kevin Cole (@KevinColePFF) February 17, 2022
Burrow would have had roughly 45 sacks at league average sack rate. He had 70. This analysis puts an extra 12 on his blocking and 13 on him. pic.twitter.com/NMFtGjRVkO
I’ve said over and over that Burrow is always going to be one of the most sacked QB’s in the league. It’s just the style he plays. He definitely needs to clean that up to some extent, but it’s a fine line. You don’t want to take too much of the playmaker out of him. It’s part of what makes him special.
You're spot the frick on....and people say you're a fanboy.
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - Wyche'sWarrior - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 12:59 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: They couldn’t even run the full offense for the last part of the year because Burrow didn’t have enough time to scan the field. Everyone can say “Burrow missed a wide open Boyd.” Hell, on the first series in the Super Bowl Higgins was open on 4th and 1 but Burrow never took his eyes off Chase.
Why? Burrow had to be a one read then throw it QB, and we all know Burrow isn’t that kind of QB. Some plays had to be ran to get the receivers deep enough to convert, but he didn’t have enough time for those to develop, he had pressure literally in his face after completing his drop.
I’d like to see him throw it away a little more. But, honestly, the O line handicapped him too badly for Burrow to do Burrow things.
It's more on the line, for sure, but it's a little of both.
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - Gdale_Bengal - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 01:15 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: It's more on the line, for sure, but it's a little of both.
Absolutely 100% is a combination. Burrow will still get sacked more often even with an average O line because he tried to get extend plays. I think most, if not all of the sacks in them the play offs were on the line just being terrible.
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - CincyDog - 02-18-2022
Our fans are funny
After a Super Bowl and an elite Qb season by burrow ‘what can he do better’
1-8 years of Andy ‘he is the least of our issues, this team is good enough to win with him’
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - Wyche'sWarrior - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 01:24 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Absolutely 100% is a combination. Burrow will still get sacked more often even with an average O line because he tried to get extend plays. I think most, if not all of the sacks in them the play offs were on the line just being terrible.
You'll get no argument there. They played much better competition, so it stands to reason they'd struggle more. Like you and I said, it's definitely more on the line. I'd also add that I don't want to take much of the gambling style out of his play. It makes him who he is. Eliminating so many free rushers, and giving him more time to look for the big play will not only help the offense, it will help his staying power.
RE: What can Burrow do differently? - Wyche'sWarrior - 02-18-2022
(02-18-2022, 01:57 PM)CincyDog Wrote: Our fans are funny
After a Super Bowl and an elite Qb season by burrow ‘what can he do better’
1-8 years of Andy ‘he is the least of our issues, this team is good enough to win with him’
Eh... you've always gotta improve. We need to improve the line, Zac needs to continue to grow, and there are things that a quarterback that's only played what, 30 or so games, can definitely improve upon. If he continues his trajectory (he's already learned a lot, improved his deep ball, for example), then you're looking at a potential hall of fame career. I'm sure that Joe Burrow will ABSOLUTELY be looking at film to find ways to improve. That's what the great ones do.